Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Lubavitch > The World of Lubavitch > Controversy

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 07-26-2003, 10:05 PM   #1
chassidus
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 732
Why Stop with the Mishichistin?

Once, not that long ago, a non-Lubavitch girl from a non-Lubavitch family was studying in a seminary in Yerushalaim. She had two brothers, one that was not religious and another a Lubavitcher. One Shabbos she went to eat at a religious family's house in Yerushalaim.

Her host, an ultra-orthodox man, inquired about her family:

<Host> Do you have any siblings?

<Girl> Yes, two older brothers.

<Host> And what are they doing?

<Girl> [slightly uncomfortably] Well, my older brother is in the Army reserves, the American Army, studying to be a linguist.

<Host> [somewhat impressed] Oh, that's interesting. And your other brother.

<Girl> My other brother is in New York, he's Lubavitch--

<Host> [interrupts] Lubavitch? LUBAVITCH?? I'm sorry I don't believe in that religion!

<Girl> [Drops jaw in disbelief and appall]

<Host> Does he hang around the Kever all the time?

<Girl> [uncertain of the truth of her statement and in a defensive tone] Oh no, he's a normal Lubavitcher.

This is a true story, I heard it first hand.

My point is, everyone is jumping on the Mishichisten all the time, calling them all sorts of names, etc., etc. Well I think it's time to wake up and realize that all of those "normal" Antis out there aren't any better off.

There is no escape from those that want to blaspheme Lubavitch. Under their watchful glare--

You're an apikores if…

-you say Yechi.
-you think the Rebbe is Moshiach.
- you go to the Ohel, because you worship the Rebbe and are doresh min hamesim (seek the dead).
- you give Tanya shiurim, because you teach that every Jew is litteraly a part of G-d.
- you do Mivtzoyim, because you go out into inapropriate places, put tfillin on people that didn't wash their hands.
- you don't sleeping in the Sukka and if you use a steel knife for schita.
- you always sing and dance and clap your hands on shabbos.
- you give much importance to simple unlearned people and saying that they are often worth more than Torah scholars.
-you are a member of the "cult"--that new sect of Judaism that worships "Rebbeim," placing faith in their miracles over G-d (their called chassidim today).
-you study Kabbala, or anything that has Kabbala in it, because it says, "the hidden things are for Hashem our G-d."
-you study the Arizal's Kabbala, because his school of Kabbala teaches practical Kabbala.
-----------------

This is a list of complaints against Lubavitchers and who they come from, in reverse historical order to the time of the Rashb"a. Many of the earlier claims against Chabad (or chassidim in general) are still asked, even though they have been answered time and time again. Why don't people realize that there are people out there that are looking for excuses to hate, they are looking for liables, not the truth. It used to be that it was Gentiles that fabricated liables against the Jews, then it was secular Jews against religious Jews, then it was Misnagdim against Chassidim, and now it is Lubavichers against Lubavitchers. Isn't it enough? How can someone buy into these liables and slanders? Do they think they are any different, that there aren't those that will say the same things about them, with equally sound "proofs" and "facts"?

What happened to blind love and tollerance?
chassidus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-26-2003, 10:35 PM   #2
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
You convinced me - let's all start saying yechi 27 times a day.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-26-2003, 11:00 PM   #3
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
I have a bridge I can sell you, are you interested?
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-26-2003, 11:07 PM   #4
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-26-2003, 11:32 PM   #5
BrookAve
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 647
I love singing and dancing and clapping hands on Shabbos. The snag shuls in my town, and in fact the world are cemetaries. So dry, like a piece of toast. Chabad Rocks!!!!!
BrookAve is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-26-2003, 11:46 PM   #6
LuvLubavitch
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 56
Re: Why Stop with the Mishichistin?

Quote:
Originally posted by chassidus
What happened to blind love and tollerance?
Look on Ma Nishtana site on contrevercy.
LuvLubavitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-26-2003, 11:47 PM   #7
stamayid
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 683
Definitely true. That learning Torah stuff is too boring.


Seriously, though, just because there are some people against all Lubavitchers does not mean that all or even most are.
__________________
<b>Stam A Yid</b>

Last edited by stamayid; 07-26-2003 at 11:52 PM.
stamayid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-26-2003, 11:51 PM   #8
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
Quote:
Originally posted by BrookAve
Chabad Rocks!!!!!
Is it REALLY necessary to use such low class goyish expressions when describing ourselves??
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 12:03 AM   #9
BrookAve
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 647
I heard it from the head shaliach of X. Ok RebYid I will edit it here. MMM let me think. I got it.... Chabad RRRRRRROOOOOOOCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKSSSSSSSSS. Si Ud. no se gusta esa, va a otras paginas.
BrookAve is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 12:08 AM   #10
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
Yes, of course I can go to the other pages, but is that the point??

Last edited by RebYid; 07-27-2003 at 12:11 AM.
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 12:14 AM   #11
BrookAve
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 647
Chabad enchants, Chabad elates,Chabad inspires, Chabad stimulates. See a thesaurus for more. I hope I made you happy. But I will tell you that my rock collection rocks! Rocks, slang for diamonds. But you knew that already.
BrookAve is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 01:45 AM   #12
chassidus
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 732
Quote:
Originally posted by Torah613
You convinced me - let's all start saying yechi 27 times a day.
I didn't say you had to become a yechi'ist. Just realize that no one is exempt from slander. People criticized the Rebbe too. (And, please, do not misconstrue that as an elevation of anyone to the level of the Rebbe.) But you can't use what other's say as an indication. Just because people think something is weird doesn't mean its wrong. I do agree that the external show on the mishichist side (as well as the anti side) is overboard, but that is no reason to hate them. That is what happens when the pnimius is missing, and its missing from everyone (or else there wouldn't be such lack of tolerance).

Quote:
I have a bridge I can sell you, are you interested?
RebYid, please tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you will find many people that say most of the things I do. Who do you think is selling me my thoughts? On the contrary, you have a large support group you can subscribe to. I have none. Nobody pats me on the back for making snide comments to belittle my opposition. Nobody preached my opinions to me. Wherein lies my naivete?

Do you think you are open-minded? Observation: cynicism does not equal open-mindedness.

Quote:
Definitely true. That learning Torah stuff is too boring.


Seriously, though, just because there are some people against all Lubavitchers does not mean that all or even most are.
Stam, I do not, G-d forbid, mean to lump everyone together here. There are some people that look for trouble, there are some that look for truth, and there are some that do whatever they're told. My point is only that those that are looking for trouble don't need the Mishichistin to find it, and indeed, they don't necessarily separate Mishichistin from Antis when slandering Lubavich, despite all efforts on both sides to distance themselves from each other.
__________________
"The Baal Shem Tov revealed a new dimension of Torah based on Ahavas Yisrael."
chassidus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 05:58 AM   #13
shoyn
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,121
while many may have various complaints about lubavitch going way back etc, as long as we are following the directives of the Rebbe we can confidently ignore the ridicule and scorn, taking pride in the fact that we are carrying out the Rebb'es wishes to the best of our understanding and ability.

When it comes to various other campaigns, like plastering shules, buses and bus stops with strange materials, [and with what aim, that some one will see the sign and get turned on to yiddishkeit, lubavitch, moshiach ?????]....

the world may always have complaints, but does that make it our responsibiltiy to initiate activities to add fuel to the fire?
shoyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 06:39 AM   #14
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
Thumbs up

RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 07:34 AM   #15
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
Quote:
Originally posted by chassidus
RebYid
Who do you think is selling me my thoughts?
Sorry I wasn't clear. I was trying to sell the bridge to Torah613!

Quote:

Do you think you are open-minded? Observation: cynicism does not equal open-mindedness.
Observation: cynicism is the last refuge of the idealist.
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 09:12 AM   #16
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally posted by chassidus
I didn't say you had to become a yechi'ist. Just realize that no one is exempt from slander. People criticized the Rebbe too. (And, please, do not misconstrue that as an elevation of anyone to the level of the Rebbe.) But you can't use what other's say as an indication. Just because people think something is weird doesn't mean its wrong. I do agree that the external show on the mishichist side (as well as the anti side) is overboard, but that is no reason to hate them. That is what happens when the pnimius is missing, and its missing from everyone (or else there wouldn't be such lack of tolerance).
You are making one mistake. IMVHO, the trouble with yechi and all that is not the criticism etc from the outside (though that is a definite problem - furthering people from Chassidus!), but the etzem inyon (the thing itself). The thing itself is wrong.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 09:18 AM   #17
rebayzl
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,354
It's also not about the "Messengeres" (Messianists) but about the MESSAGE.

To say today that the Rebbe is Moshiach, and to teach our children that this is the case is plain WRONG.
rebayzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 09:24 AM   #18
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Exactly.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 09:26 AM   #19
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Also, what you wrote
Quote:
I do agree that the external show on the mishichist side (as well as the anti side) is overboard, but that is no reason to hate them.
who said anything about hate (especially hating them)?
I hate the message - not them!
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 10:51 AM   #20
gezetzt
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 257
the rebbe was maskim to Yechi in PUBLIC!

stop changing history
gezetzt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 10:53 AM   #21
gezetzt
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 257
Quote:
Originally posted by rebayzl
It's also not about the "Messengeres" (Messianists) but about the MESSAGE.

To say today that the Rebbe is Moshiach, and to teach our children that this is the case is plain WRONG.

are you an Authority on lubavitch?
The rebbe is “boss”! – and his sichos and “maase rav” are “nitzchiyos”!!
gezetzt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 11:02 AM   #22
lambda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,284
If the Rebbe cooks using a pot but somebody else treifs it up, does his ma'aseh rav still allow you to cook with it? Circumstances change. Even if you were to hold that the Rebbe thought he was Moshiach, he was still niftar. That changes things.

Last edited by lambda; 07-27-2003 at 11:04 AM.
lambda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 11:11 AM   #23
gezetzt
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 257
The rebbe said he is moshiach

The rebbe gave reshus to be mefarsem this

The rebbe did not give any time limit to this!
gezetzt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 11:13 AM   #24
lambda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,284
Okay, then you have no concept of reality. The Rebbe was niftar. To say he is Moshiach is silly. I am going to stop saying this in threads soon.

Last edited by lambda; 07-27-2003 at 11:16 AM.
lambda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-27-2003, 11:21 AM   #25
gezetzt
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 257
torah is "bal habos" on reality.
please - talk like a chosid
gezetzt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How will we stop land concessions noahidelaws Eretz Yisrael - Israel 253 09-01-2005 12:30 AM
Jokes (1) Jude General 465 01-09-2003 03:31 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com