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Unread 05-23-2002, 01:51 AM   #126
Lubamessimaniac
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1. The new Oif Simchas is takeh a lot more aidel than the other stuff they put out. Eishes Chayil is a beautiful song.
2. Noahide - I think that's a bit too naive... Kids need good music, and unfortunately, most kids won't exactly listen to Nichoach. That's why we have Fried. As for playing goyish style - I've mentioned that Piamenta got brochos from the Rebbe to do what they do; that's why I trust them.

It's a tough issue; but the strongest taana I have is from experience - any song that YOU (as the counselors) make into the "IN" song will become cool. It happened with us with Fried's Koiach, Moideh Ani, Mi Ma and Chevron, Diaspora's Malchutcha and Dedi's Vekoivay in Ukraine, and with "Yehay" by Chevra in Australia. (oh - and it also must have a good beat...)

I was a dorm counselor in Ukraine, and when I was around they could only play Jewish music. So they developed a taste for it!
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Unread 05-23-2002, 02:27 AM   #127
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well listen to this 1 everything has a spark of god in it and we r letting it out. dumb and u can get bak on it a million times but....
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Unread 05-23-2002, 03:26 PM   #128
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Luba: Piamentas' bracha was for outreach purposes
Noahidelaws is saying that kids who are davening and learning every day, who are exposed to goyishkeit all the time, need to be exposed to something special when doing Lubavitch activities. That's the whole point! Otherwise, they could go elsewhere, like a roller rink, and skate to pop music!
Even if it's not Nichoach, why not Fried's two Lubavitch niggunim tapes? and MBD also has niggunim tapes
seek and ye shall find
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Unread 05-23-2002, 05:17 PM   #129
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Jude, if we're talking about frum kids, - I agree 100%!
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Unread 05-23-2002, 08:40 PM   #130
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everyone who was talking about frum kids, I agree with you!! The thing is, I thought you were talking about non-frum kids who are either forced to go to this Lubavitch school or they want to but are not on that frum level. (kind of like the school I go to-where you are mamosh on shlichus 24/7, even when you are at home, and have ppl calling you, popping over for 'suprise' visits, etc.). And you know what? A bunch of my frie (I mean not YET frum) friends really like Yehuda's songs b/c of a concert we went to in daycamp... The thing is to open them up to these types of songs. You can't automatically assume that they will hate them, just because its Jewish music. And is it SO bad for a frie girl to listen to Jewish music 1/2 the time???? I think not!!!
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Unread 06-02-2002, 08:29 PM   #131
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Carlebach Vs. Lubavitch nigunim

I once heard an interesting practical difference between Calebach and Chabad nigunim. (Besides the havdoloh bein Kodesh Lechol). Carlebach songs make one feel great about being Jewish but does not demand any thing from the listener, Chabad Nigunim demands of the listener. Es mont an avoideh
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Unread 06-05-2002, 02:38 AM   #132
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That sounds like the difference between Carlebach and Chassidus bichlal - but how does it display itself in niggunim?
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Unread 06-05-2002, 08:25 AM   #133
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Excuse me? There are dozens if not hundreds of baalei teshuva around the world who became frum because of Carlebach. You can disagree and disapprove of his methods, but don't discount everything he did.
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Unread 06-05-2002, 08:57 AM   #134
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Re: Carlebach Vs. Lubavitch nigunim

Quote:
Originally posted by Leayis
I once heard an interesting practical difference between Calebach and Chabad nigunim. (Besides the havdoloh bein Kodesh Lechol). Carlebach songs make one feel great about being Jewish but does not demand any thing from the listener, Chabad Nigunim demands of the listener. Es mont an avoideh
CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN WHAT THIS MEANS??!!!(not the yiddish)
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Unread 06-05-2002, 09:15 AM   #135
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Attend a chassidshe farbrengen and you will understand. tavna d'libai lo kasvei inshei
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Unread 06-05-2002, 09:24 AM   #136
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i have attended farbys where carlebach was sung, and it was excellent! (i don't get where people make some of this stuff up!)
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Unread 06-05-2002, 09:39 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
Excuse me? There are dozens if not hundreds of baalei teshuva around the world who became frum because of Carlebach. You can disagree and disapprove of his methods, but don't discount everything he did.
The State of Israel created MUCH MUCH more Baaley Teshuvah.
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Unread 06-05-2002, 09:45 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by rebayzl


The State of Israel created MUCH MUCH more Baaley Teshuvah.
what is your point, and how did 'they'' create BT'S?
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Unread 06-05-2002, 10:04 AM   #139
Leayis
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The statement i made earlier means as follows.

Chabad Nigunim were usually made when certain Chassidim were davening etc. and in their hight of Avoidah a heartfelt song emerged. so the song was created through Avoidah and therefore demands of the person singing it or hearing it that Avoidah. Carlebach Nigunim were made by shlomo through a "good Jewish Feeling" mood. every one of his songs are tochendik and the tune fits the words but they do not demand avoideh because they were not created through avoidah. they were created as an expression of shlomo's love for being Jewish and therefore they give that feeling to the singer or listener.

It is for this reason that Toichendike Chassidisher yidden wont listen to MBD or any of the other Jewish SIngers who's songs are bsolutely toichenless and devoid of deeper meaning.
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Unread 06-05-2002, 10:06 AM   #140
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Notalubab

If you attended a farbrengen where they sang carlebach nigunim, then i will venture to say that it was not much of a farbrengen. I have never heard of such a rediculous idea of singing carlebach nigunim by a chassidishe farbrengen.
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Unread 06-05-2002, 10:33 AM   #141
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If we base our opinions on what our Rebbeim told us, then everything we say about music has to based on the Intro to Sefer Hanigunim in which the Frierdike Rebbe explains that when you listen to music you are influenced by the source of the Neshama of the composer.

So then, when you listen to Carlebach, you are influenced by the source of a soul that hugged and kissed women pretty indiscriminately.

My cards are on the table, now I duck the fire!
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Unread 06-05-2002, 10:43 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bittul
If we base our opinions on what our Rebbeim told us, then everything we say about music has to based on the Intro to Sefer Hanigunim in which the Frierdike Rebbe explains that when you listen to music you are influenced by the source of the Neshama of the composer.

So then, when you listen to Carlebach, you are influenced by the source of a soul that hugged and kissed women pretty indiscriminately.

My cards are on the table, now I duck the fire!
What tachlis and toeles do you gain by besmirching a 'Hoicheh Neshomoh'' after he is not around anymore?
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Unread 06-05-2002, 10:48 AM   #143
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<<they were created as an expression of shlomo's love for being Jewish and therefore they give that feeling to the singer or listener. >>

I do not disagree with you about the holiness of Chasidishe niggunim, however if "all" I get from Carlebach's songs is a love for being Jewish, as well as his deep love for every Yid, which might actually translate itself into doing a fraction of what he did for other Jews, maybe I shouldn't say dayeinu, but it sure is worth a lot to me.
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Unread 06-05-2002, 12:46 PM   #144
Leayis
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Jude

That is exactly what i said in my first post about this. Chabad Nigunim demand of the listener and singer while carlebach songs dont demand any thing of the listener and singer. Its rather a feel good about being Jewish type of experience.
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Unread 06-05-2002, 01:27 PM   #145
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Btw, I dont know if anyone realized, but Avraham Frieds' words are based on chassidus...just pick up any english song and check it out.
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Unread 06-06-2002, 12:36 AM   #146
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1. Carlebach mekareved thousands of people, and thousands of others were reminded of their Jewish roots. My father told me that his first Jewish experience was a Carlebach concert. It didn't make him frum - Chabad House did - but it was something.

However, as was mentioned somewhere else, the man was a bit off the straight and narrow. Do his nigunim reflect that? Hoiche neshomo, takeh - but he still messed up!

2. <<It is for this reason that Toichendike Chassidisher yidden wont listen to MBD or any of the other Jewish SIngers who's songs are bsolutely toichenless and devoid of deeper meaning.>>

You're putting ALL their songs in one light - I think that's pushing it a bit. Some of these singers have songs which I, for one, feel touched by - Abie Rotenberg's stuff, for example. There's definitely been a deluge in pathetic toichenless stuff, but to say that EVERYTHING is not mehadrin? I don't think so.
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Unread 06-06-2002, 11:50 AM   #147
proud2blub
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cmon guys u think all these singers are such perfect tzadikim? everyone does avieros n thats why hashem created teshuva. who are we to judge what carlbach did or didnt do.... or any other siinger for that matter. if u gotta personal prob with listenin to him gezunterhiet! dont listen! u dont have to bring it out nto the open when the case is closed already, the guys dead. i think everyone should just chill n let hashem do the judging here.
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Unread 06-06-2002, 11:52 AM   #148
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sorry one more thing.... y dont we all just look at all the good parts of people nstead of there faults...
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Unread 06-06-2002, 02:15 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lubamessimaniac
1. Carlebach mekareved thousands of people, and thousands of others were reminded of their Jewish roots. My father told me that his first Jewish experience was a Carlebach concert. It didn't make him frum - Chabad House did - but it was something.
>>> Beautiful! That explains lots of things.
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Unread 06-06-2002, 09:44 PM   #150
Leayis
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Carlebach

Lubamessianic

You make a statement that shlomo carlebach had a hoiche neshomo. Hoe in the world do you know that? are you in that realm? these rediculous statements just come out of the sleeve? have you learned Chassidus? how does a chabad chossid make that kind of statement, and noch about Shlomo Carlebach? meila you would say that about reb Mendel Futerfas nu! it would be stupid then too. but about shlomo Carlebach?

Proud2blub

I am not judging him at all. I just made an observation about the difference between his songs and Chabad Nigunim. Zol er hobin a lichtigen Gan Eden.
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