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Unread 12-20-2004, 06:46 PM   #76
eitze shpringer
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Re: Nittel nacht

we are going to have of loshen hara to speek about

btw if any one could get a answer for this, why do we go acorrding to the english date, i believe the satmer rebbe asket the rebbe this when the rebbe went to be minachem ovel him in the good days but i don't know what the rebbe answer was

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Unread 12-20-2004, 07:17 PM   #77
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Re: Nittel nacht

surely we go by the goyshe date because it is a goyshe event, it has nothing to do with us (really) and it isn't a significant part of our year except that we don't learn.

i doubt i have answered ur question....
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Unread 12-20-2004, 08:12 PM   #78
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Re: Nittel nacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by eitze shpringer
we are going to have of loshen hara to speek about

btw if any one could get a answer for this, why do we go acorrding to the english date, i believe the satmer rebbe asket the rebbe this when the rebbe went to be minachem ovel him in the good days but i don't know what the rebbe answer was
There are several printed letters of the Rebbe explaining this.
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Unread 12-20-2004, 09:41 PM   #79
eitze shpringer
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Re: Nittel nacht

dear torah613 please write the where
and hopetobeabachur the klepah gos acorrdingg to the hebrew date as well
and in this case they celebrate the birth of J which why that day the klepah is stornger so on....... so we should go acorrding to the hebrew birthday of J
and btw satmer had a diff. nitel nacht
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Unread 12-20-2004, 10:06 PM   #80
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Re: Nittel nacht

Hi. I wanted to ask a general question about nittel nacht. A hashkafah question.
In yiddishkeit, we generally believe that HaShem is just and runs the world in an organized way and things do not work haphazardly etc. So why would the Torah that you learned on nittel nacht go for something that you did not intend it for ? It seems that after they die, people shouldn't get kochos randomly, according to whoever happens to be learning that night. Rather, if someone learns specifically to honor that person, then the neshama is elevated. Otherwise, on any given night, you might be learning and giving kochos to people who have done bad things etc. Doesn't it make more sense that Hashem makes your Torah go where it is supposed to go ? Why would reshaim/misguided people get strength after they die- doesn't that negate the whole point of logical punishment and consequences ? What happens, also, if your relative's yartzeit happens to fall out one year on nittel nacht ? What happens in shamayim, I mean ?

Aside from answering that the Rebbe said this, etc., do you have any other responses ?
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Unread 12-20-2004, 10:25 PM   #81
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Re: Nittel nacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by eitze shpringer
dear torah613 please write the where
and hopetobeabachur the klepah gos acorrdingg to the hebrew date as well
and in this case they celebrate the birth of J which why that day the klepah is stornger so on....... so we should go acorrding to the hebrew birthday of J
and btw satmer had a diff. nitel nacht
LS v 10 p 319. v 15 p 554. 30 p 316. (also printed in Sharei Halocho Uminhog etc).
I believe after perusing these sources all the above questions will be answered.
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Unread 12-20-2004, 10:36 PM   #82
eitze shpringer
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Re: Nittel nacht

Its קליפה getting this כוחות and not specifically J or any person,
you ask a very good question, and much most be learned to fully understand if at all possible to understand well, the way the almighty runs this world, but a could try to explain a little how it works:

G-d made the way his blessings and חיות for the world come down is threw 10 vessels A.K.A. ספירות such as בינה ,חכמה, and so on, now when a Jew heaven forbid commits a sin he makes a blemish in these vessels thus causing that the קליפה can receive his אורות or blessings and כוחות even though that it was not intended for them this is call יניקת החיצוינים.

now being when we learn torah we are ממשיך draw down כוחות which some thru the 10 vessels, and being that all the sins that were committed by J and every one else and being that on that night the קליפה is stronger then always (for which i don't fully understand why) they receive more כוחות and חיות, and that is how i understand why we don't learn torah beside that he learned torah as well so on the day of his celebration he could reiceive the חיות that we get from learning

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Unread 12-21-2004, 10:41 AM   #83
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Re: Nittel nacht

I also am quite confused about nittel nacht, and it is frustrating here in eretz Yisrael. when it is so easy to ignore that it exists, to have to be reminded of it. I also don't understand why our reaction is to cease torah activity. Normally as Lubavitchers our response is to increase the good!!
This year I have an additional dilemma. That shabbos there will be some sort of get-together, and I was asked to farbreng with the women on nittel nacht. what am I permitted to do? Is discussing chinuch problems a(and their solutions) permitted?
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Unread 12-21-2004, 10:47 AM   #84
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Re: Nittel nacht

Can one discuss on nittel why one doesn't learn on nittel?
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Unread 12-21-2004, 11:32 AM   #85
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Re: Nittel nacht

I think my main difficulty with the whole nittel nacht minhag is that of "unintended strengthening of klipah". I don't really understand how that works. Klipah has no power of its own, right ? Any vitality or ability to drawn in strength is given by Hashem. So why would Hashem let it strengthen from something that you intended to be for good, like learning Torah ? Saying that kelipa will get power from your learning Torah seems to give the klipah some sort of vitality of its own, doesn't it ?
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Unread 12-21-2004, 11:35 AM   #86
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Re: Nittel nacht

Are there any guidelines by the Rebbeim on how Shabbos affects Nittel?

(In k'Gavna it says that the ... have no shlita on Shabbos. Could that affect the minhog?)
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Unread 12-21-2004, 12:13 PM   #87
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Re: Nittel nacht

in Reshimos..it makes it clear that Nittel is nogaya on Shabbas also al pi CHabad.
Different opinions of course...see Nite Gavriel in the back of his newer Channukah volume for all the details.
I have a whole sefer just on Nittel. Little blue one. One point brought is that one should ideally nap and get up at Chatzot to learn...
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Unread 12-21-2004, 10:14 PM   #88
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Re: Nittel nacht

Att. MCP:

g-d made this world with challenges, and part of those challenges is KLEPAH,

Now KLEPAH being also a creation of g-d needs life and sustenance, so g-d gives them the bear minimum in a way which is called in chashidus בחינת אחורים which means basically that the same way a person who is forced to give some thing to another person who he dislike's very much (B\C of a court case) when he give it to him, he give the minimum which he could get away with and gives it to him behind his back, showing that he dose not want to give this person what he is giving him (weather literally or with that attitude) the same way g-d gives life to KLEPAH.


so KLEPAH is always trying to receive more and more sustenance and livelihood, and that is the concept of יניקת החיצוינים like i explained in an earlier post. and they way they get it, is if we sin H"F we make a small hole in the vessels that our livelihood flows threw, so what happens is, its like sort of a leek in the spiritual sense, why they could receive this livelihood, we most ask the one who created this system, but one cannot why g-d would do duch a thing, (to give klepah some sort of its own power) cause that is just how he created the world

i answered to the best of my abilty

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Unread 12-22-2004, 01:06 PM   #89
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Re: Nittel nacht

Eitze- Your post does not answer my question. Try again. I understand the whole thing about how Hashem gives power to the klipah reluctantly. However, it has no vitality of its own aside from what Hashem gives it. Right ? Therefore when you do something that you intended to be for the good, like learning Torah, why would Hashem allow the klipah to gain vitality from that act just because it happened to be a non-Jewish holiday that evening ? It is not like once Hashem gave klipa power, now it is all set and functions on its own- that concept would not be in sync with the monotheistic approach of yiddishkeit at all. So therefore, Hashem must be allowing it to take whatever strength it is getting and I am still not clear why He would allow a well-intended act to count as something negative.
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Unread 12-22-2004, 01:37 PM   #90
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Re: Nittel nacht

you forgetting that J learned Torah so the חיות that the world gets for us learnig it, the klepah has some sort of right to it
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Unread 12-22-2004, 01:38 PM   #91
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Re: Nittel nacht

It is not a simple inyan ....do you not do any of our minhagim w/o understanding them? Its nice we print how we do and why in some books but.....at a certain point...

in the little blue book I have...there is a quote from some sefer of the Chasam Sofer was one of the machmirim on it...

Last edited by Gevurah; 12-24-2004 at 02:14 PM.
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Unread 12-22-2004, 05:43 PM   #92
eitze shpringer
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Re: Nittel nacht

gevurah 1) i dont understand what you are saying
2) in hayom yom it is writtin that its because we should not be מוסיף חיות so all we are trying to do is to understand the hyom yom
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Unread 12-23-2004, 09:47 AM   #93
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Re: Nittel nacht

So go read this weeks Hiskashrus.....It explains and also the sources Torah613 quoted ALL you NEED to KNOw about the inyan and thus otherwise there is no need to think any more
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Unread 12-23-2004, 12:28 PM   #94
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Re: Nittel nacht

Does anyone know what to tell some Jewish kids that I know nicely that ******mas is not "cool" (for Yidden at least)?

They like it because of the lights and the Movies and the Music (Yes, it scares me very much also [Not to mention how annoying it is when my class tries to learn Torah in Starbucks and they have the speakers singing about some old fat guy and his pet deer!]).
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Unread 12-23-2004, 03:03 PM   #95
Torah613
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Re: Nittel nacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gevurah
So go read this weeks Hiskashrus.....It explains and also the sources Torah613 quoted ALL you NEED to KNOw about the inyan and thus otherwise there is no need to think any more
I wonder if anyone looked up any of the sources I gave ... it is infinitely easier to make up boich sevoros...
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Unread 12-23-2004, 05:42 PM   #96
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Re: Nittel nacht

this may have already been posted in this topic but i haven't read the whole thing...

on what day aren't we alloewd to learn and from what time till when??

for example saturday 25th december 12 noon till 12 midnight.

thanks
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Unread 12-23-2004, 09:55 PM   #97
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Re: Nittel nacht

Friday night (from shkiya) until Chatzos.
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Unread 12-23-2004, 10:14 PM   #98
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Re: Nittel nacht

shabbos morning i can begin learning again?? (or even after 12 on friday night if i want)??
sorry to keep asking but i need to make it clear so i remember...
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Unread 12-23-2004, 10:26 PM   #99
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Re: Nittel nacht

After midnight Friday night you can resume learning.
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Unread 12-23-2004, 10:37 PM   #100
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Re: Nittel nacht

Is there a reason it's only at night? Shouldn't it apply in the day too since it's still x-mass?
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