Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Torah and Judaism > Halachah & Minhagim

Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Unread 08-08-2002, 03:11 PM   #26
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
what other reasons are there for refraining from learning?

another Igros Kodesh source, vol. 14 p. 351 - why don't we learn Torah until chatzos, and how could Torah study cause negative things to happen?
for the reason, see the many sefarim on taamei ha'minhagim which bring some reasons in the name of gedolei Yisrael ...
as to how could studying Torah have negative repercussions - there are other examples of this and in nigleh too, like not being able to learn most of Torah on Tisha B'Av, or for an avel r'l ...
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-08-2002, 03:14 PM   #27
rebayzl
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,354
Tish'a beav there is still a chyiuv to learn torah, but it's limited to certain sugyot! (According to The Rebbe's Sicha. Some Acharonim think that there is no Chiyuv TT on 9 av).


Look at the link below page 17:

http://www.chabad.org.il/print/hit/hit419.pdf

Last edited by rebayzl; 08-08-2002 at 03:21 PM.
rebayzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-08-2002, 05:49 PM   #28
masbir
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,287
I the name of the Belzer thaey say that it doesnt matter when THEY go even if they go another day the day that the Klipos are potent is the original date!

The simple reason is rooted in Minhogei Yisroel, once a minhag was established it has its life of its own, even though the original circomstances are not there anymore the Minhag is kept. This is especially true by Chasidim.

In Chabad we have writing 5 oclock for the Chupa, not eating suger pesach, and much more.
masbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-08-2002, 10:00 PM   #29
vusveisichuber
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
what other reasons are there for refraining from learning?
Some Chasidim hold of this minhog for pure practical reasons - it was a sakonoh to go out then. But as Masbir writes - "once a minhag was established it has its life of its own, even though the original circomstances are not there anymore the Minhag is kept. "
__________________
LA"D (Kimuvon)
vusveisichuber is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-08-2002, 10:13 PM   #30
Leayis
Senior Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,970
what about being moiseef chayus in kelipah?
Leayis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-18-2002, 04:17 AM   #31
hishtatchus
Senior Diamond Member
 
hishtatchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,606
I believe that is the answer given in Hayom Yom
hishtatchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-24-2002, 03:02 PM   #32
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D See http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books...lish/43/43.htm from Vayeshev 5750:

Based on the above, we can understand the practices followed by the Rebbeim in connection with nittel (which generally falls on or in proximity to the Chanukah festival). The Previous Rebbe taught that it is customary not to study Torah on that night in order not to increase the Divine life energy present. The Previous Rebbe continued that his father, the Rebbe Rashab, would either play chess (or give advice to others playing chess) on that night.

The lesson that can be learned from this is as follows: When a Jew is in a situation which -- because its level is very low -- he cannot elevate in a direct manner through studying Torah, he should use that situation to produce a benefit in an indirect manner, for example, by playing chess, a game which is connected with the intellect. Firstly, it sharpens one's intellect. Secondly, playing successively can increase the respect with which one is held by gentiles and thirdly, at times, it can produce a direct financial benefit.

Similarly, each person in his own way must use nittel in a positive way. Rather, than merely do nothing, he should perform acts connected with wisdom, or connected with charity and kindness, or connected with the proper functioning of his home.

In this vein, the story was once told of a yeshivah student who wore a jacket which was missing a button. When he was asked why he did not fix it, he replied that nittel was approaching and that he was putting off fixing it until then. The yeshivah student couldn't conceive of time that would be spent without any positive input. Hence, knowing that he could not study on nittel, he planned to use the time for another constructive act!

One might assume that he fixed the button in a manner in which the right side is closed above the left as is Jewish custom.

The fact that the Previous Rebbe associated nittel with the Rebbe Rashab implies that one of the ways to use the night in a positive manner is to picture the Rebbe Rashab's face (based on the photograph which exists). This will increase the love and fear with which we regard him and encourage us to follow his directives with greater inspiration.
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-24-2002, 03:11 PM   #33
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D someone quoted above that nittel means birth. But historians have proven that that guy was not born on this day, it was an invention of the early ******ians to coincide with the existing pagan holiday. making their new religion palatable to the gentile masses. So nittel=birth doesn't meant he was actually born on that day, but that that is their claim.
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-24-2002, 03:29 PM   #34
Chabad Friend
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 813
Natal "Nittel" does mean birth. Even the goyim admit that they have no idea when he was born. But they say that they celebrate his birth on that day. I guess the fact that they all celebrate that occasion is what gives it klipa.

In a similar way, I know that in England, the Queen's birthday is celebrated on a certain day every year even though it's not her birthday because the weather is nicer on the day they chose!
Chabad Friend is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-24-2002, 03:56 PM   #35
pretzel999
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 797
Why is this the strongest klippeh , and why is there no 'nittel' for a muslim holiday?
pretzel999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-24-2002, 04:31 PM   #36
Chabad Friend
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 813
Besides the whole month Ramadan, I am unaware of any muslim yom aid that is comparible in scale to nittel.
Chabad Friend is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-24-2002, 04:40 PM   #37
shpitzchabad
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally posted by Chabad Friend
Besides the whole month Ramadan, I am unaware of any muslim yom aid that is comparible in scale to nittel.
And it's not avodah zarah either...
shpitzchabad is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-24-2002, 07:51 PM   #38
RebYankel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Leayis
i heard once that the GRA would cut toilet paper for the whole year (for shabbos) on nittel. does this make sence?
I don't know if it's true but one thing is for sure, if isn’t true at least it could have been true because:

"Es Past Zach Far a Masnaged" to do such things to make the best possible use of his time, in this most intelligent way (rather than using his head to play chess)

Nu. It's Nitel Nacht, right now so what else can I say?
RebYankel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-24-2002, 09:58 PM   #39
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D The acharonim (Likutei yeshurun) bring Likutei hapardes, that the original reason not to learn Torah was because the anti-semites would ambush those who learnt on their return from the Beis Medrash, striking them cruelly until blood flowed, so the gedolei hador decreed not to leave the house due to sakonas nefoshos.

The Chasam Sofer says that the reason we don't learn is because one may not rejoice on the day of their holiday, and Torah study gladdens the heart (similar to tisha be'av, I suppose).

He offers an alternate reason: The goyim have a custom to gather on Cratzmach eve after midnight for prayer. If the Jews are all asleep, and not learning, they will look bad and the Soton will accuse them. So a custom was enacted not to learn. Then the scholars go to sleep early, wake up on chatzos to finish their study quota, and prevent the accusations.

Apparently in the yeshiva in LA they davka do this - go to sleep and wake up and learn.
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-24-2002, 10:21 PM   #40
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D nittel nacht is kind of odd...
like, NOW you're not allowed to learn, so...
oy vay HOW will we spend our time?!

unlike the rest of the year when it's a matter of
learn Learn LEARN
or else
no, don't stop for even a split-second
don't you DARE, that's an issur de'oiraisa, don't you know?

and again... you blinked, there you go again - Bittul Torah!!!
and I'm not even a devorim betailim person, quite the opposite


for once you can take a breather and play chess (my favourite sport ) without nagging guilt feelings...
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-24-2002, 10:40 PM   #41
ChilinInCali
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 437
Quote:
Originally posted by noahidelaws

Apparently in the yeshiva in LA they davka do this - go to sleep and wake up and learn.
Huh? Which Yeshiva in LA?
ChilinInCali is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-24-2002, 10:42 PM   #42
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D The Chabad one. Just telling you what I heard.
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-25-2002, 12:00 AM   #43
hishtatchus
Senior Diamond Member
 
hishtatchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,606
Are you allowed to ask a Shaila on Nittel Nacht?
hishtatchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-25-2002, 12:12 AM   #44
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D Uh, what was that you asked...?
Are you allowed to answer a shaila about whether you can ask a shaila... uh oh... can I answer that?

lambda says this is an example of a "self-annihilating sentence," like: "Before I begin speaking, there is something I would like to say."
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-25-2002, 01:09 AM   #45
hishtatchus
Senior Diamond Member
 
hishtatchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,606
LOL

And now that it's after Chatzos...?
hishtatchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-25-2002, 01:36 AM   #46
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D Uh, why are you assuming that we are in the same time-zone?
Anyway... if something needs to be known urgently, something with Halachic relevance, it would certainly override nittel, which is a minhog.
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-25-2002, 06:40 AM   #47
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
I don't think a psak (which we do constantly) and paskening a shaaloh is really "learning".
(JMHO)

Last edited by Torah613; 12-25-2002 at 06:51 AM.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2003, 12:07 AM   #48
Chabad-Yudele
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally posted by Shlucha
Didn't the Rebbe used to play chess on nitel nacht?
there is a famous picture of the rebbe playing chess with the frierdiker rebbe.
__________________
Anyone else?........
Chabad-Yudele is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2003, 09:26 AM   #49
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
read/heard that it wasn't taken on nittel nacht
source anyone?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2003, 09:34 AM   #50
rebayzl
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,354
Yemey Bereshit (NOT On Nittel Nacht)
rebayzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com