Spray on Shabbos

[FlyingAxe]

Last Shabbos, I’ve heard an argument regarding whether it’s permissible to use deodorant on Shabbos.

Someone quoted from A"R’s S"A regarding this, where he says that it’s ossur because of zoreh. In Mehadura Kamma. In Kuntres Acharon, regarding destroying chametz, he says it’s permissible to go to a river and throw crumbs in there, this way destroying chometz — and for those who say it’s a problem with zoreh, it’s pottur, ksh"k.

Most people take ksh"k = kmo she kosavti, and say that in Mehadura Basra, in Hilchos Shabbos, A"R allowed it. We just don’t have M"B, so we can’t verify. They bring as a proof Mishna Brura which allows it and doesn’t mention a dissenting opinion of A"R, as it usually does if there is one. So, probably Mishna Brura relied on Mehadura Basra.

Others say that ksh"k = kmo she kosuv, and A"R refers to a machloikes between Bavli and Yerushalmi, and not to himself, and that he did not change his opinion. So, using spray is still ossur.

Others rule that lihatchilla, we don’t use it, but for the purposes of p"n, we do.

1. I didn’t quite get the details of the discussion and couldn’t get in touch with the person who gave over the sugya. Does anybody know about this — where A"R discuss this in S"A, which discussion in Bavli vs. Yerushalmi he may be referring to, and why does he allow in one place and not in the other? (And also: what’s the connection of destroying using water to zoreh?)

2. Regarding the question itself, I know many poskim, including Rav Moishe, allow it, because the way that an aerosol spray works is by having pressurized gas push against liquid — see the image here. But I have heard that the way the liquid turns into a spray is by being expelled with strong force against air, which then provides resistance that separates the stream of liquid into droplets — which would make it a problem of zoreh.

Another problem is that some aerosols have liquid gas design, where:

When the valve is open, the pressure on the liquid propellant is instantly reduced. With less pressure, it can begin to boil. Particles break free, forming a gas layer at the top of the can. [...]

When the liquid flows through the nozzle, the propellant rapidly expands into gas. In some aerosol cans, this action helps to atomize the product, forming an extremely fine spray.

So, the propellant liquid/gas atomizes the product liquid, which, again, seemingly results in zoreh.


Does anyone know anything more about the above: the sugya of different editions of ARSA and maybe some teshuvos regarding deodorants/sprays on Shabbos?

[danzinger]

See the kitzur Yalkut Yosef here (halachah 5).
Also, see Shmirat Shabbat Kehilchatah (ch. 25, para. 5, fn. 31)

ואין בזה משום מלאכת הזורה, סוסי' שי"ט ברמ"א בשם הירושלמי, דע"ש בביה"ל ד"ה מפזר, בשם שו"ת רע"א, דאין זורה אלא בג"ק [גידולי קרקע] אבל לא במים וכוונת הירושלמי על ד"א בר"ה... ושו"ת יביע אומר ח"ד סי' לז

[Torah613]

שו"ע אדה"ז סי' תמו קו"א סק"ג. סי' שיט סכ"ט. דן בזה בארוכה בחי' ר' אייזיק (שוויי) ח"א.
Without the (assumed) kuntress achron in 319, one cannot know what he would have written there, and why he would have changed his mind.
With scented deoderants there can be another problem of מוליד ריח, according to the AR in Hil. Yomtov 511:7.
Then there is the famous tshuva of RAE (referenced in the earlier post).

[mosheh5769]

There is also HaRav Moshe Feinstein paskened that if they are scented, they cannot be used on Shabbes (in Piskei Hilkhos Shabbos).

[shoyn]

just on the scent issue alone, perhaps this can be overcome if it was also applied before shabbos, so the smell itself is not new