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Unread 02-27-2011, 09:38 PM   #26
FlyingAxe
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Did the Rebbe really use a tallis different from the standard Chabad tallis? http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx...-rebbes-tallis
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Unread 02-27-2011, 09:41 PM   #27
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Rebbe rolled his talis in such a way to hide the black stripes as sort of a compromise between the FR and his father.
Did the Rebbe ever remark upon the practice of chassidim to do the same? I've observed many (majority?) chassidim do that, but I also know a mashpia who said it was silly for anyone who doesn't have the same situation as the Rebbe (father wearing white tallis, Rebbe wearing black-and-white one). After all, the Rebbe said Yigdal out of kibud ov, and we don't...
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Unread 02-27-2011, 10:54 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by FlyingAxe View Post
After all, the Rebbe said Yigdal out of kibud ov, and we don't...
Source, please. I, for one, have never heard of this. [For the record, I have never heard of this so-called compromise either, or that the Rebbe's father wore an all-white Talis].
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Unread 02-28-2011, 10:18 AM   #29
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Source, please.
I heard it in Rabbi Paltiels lecture in his What is Chassidus series. That the Rebbes father was a rav of an Ashkenazi community (in Yekaterinoslav), and therefore said Yigdal (I may be confusing it with something else). I will try to find the lecture, b"n.

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For the record, I have never heard of this so-called compromise either, or that the Rebbe's father wore an all-white Talis.
So, how do you explain then the Rebbes practice to roll tallis on his shoulders, hiding the black stripes?
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Unread 02-28-2011, 10:33 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by FlyingAxe View Post
I heard it in Rabbi Paltiels lecture in his What is Chassidus series. That the Rebbes father was a rav of an Ashkenazi community (in Yekaterinoslav), and therefore said Yigdal (I may be confusing it with something else).
Maybe you mean Akdomus, which the Rebbe said. For Yigdal I would like a source, and how they know...
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So, how do you explain then the Rebbes practice to roll tallis on his shoulders, hiding the black stripes?
I would have no idea. How did the FR wear his Tallis? But just because I don't know why, does not make the other theories correct (and written as "fact"). It may be someting very simple (like preventing slippage), or any number of reasons.
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Unread 02-28-2011, 10:38 AM   #31
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My question is: where does one draw the line between copying the Rebbe in every single detail (e.g., wearing short-sleeved shirts) to the extent that it becomes ridiculous and hiskashrus?
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Unread 02-28-2011, 10:46 AM   #32
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A valid question, of course.
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Unread 02-28-2011, 11:13 AM   #33
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A question which nobody in Chabad correctly answered till now.

It remembers me a dozen of years ago when I embraced chasidus. I was asking questions on some customs I observed to some chasidim who wanted to emulate the Rebbe on many points, but were negligent on some other points. When I asked to my rov, "How is it that they take that point and not that one, and what's their basis to decide to emulate that point but not this one?" (for instance, a chosid with a light grey hat is a rare sight, despite it was the levush of the Rebbe before accepting the nesius), the rov answered in an undertone, "Nowadays, Chabadnikim are picking whatever "pleasant/fashionable minhag" they want, justifying themselves by pointing out that the Rebbe acted like that. It is all arbitrary, because when the Rebbe wanted something, he asked it clearly. If there is no clear indication that we should pick that feature but not that one, and we put pressure on others to follow, there is a danger that we may be going astray from all the important directives the Rebbe clearly gave."

Unfortunately, I'm inclined to think that he was right.
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Unread 02-28-2011, 11:41 AM   #34
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In other words, if the Rebbe made an explicit request for chassidim to do X, then they should do X, but if the Rebbe was observed to do Y, but did not request it, then there is no particular reason to do Y?
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Unread 02-28-2011, 12:08 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by FlyingAxe View Post
In other words, if the Rebbe made an explicit request for chassidim to do X, then they should do X, but if the Rebbe was observed to do Y, but did not request it, then there is no particular reason to do Y?
There is at least no particular reason to overpressure others.

For instance, we all know that the Rebbe held his tzitzis in his right hand for the first two paragraphs of the Shema, while we all hold them in the left hand. The Rebbe never gave instructions to emulate him on that point. So, there is no reason to pressure others to adopt that practice, nor is there a reason to rebuke someone who still holds them in his left hand, and it doesn't mean that because you don't do as the Rebbe did you are not bittul to the Rebbe nor does it mean that you lack true hiskashrus.

There are many instructions the Rebbe gave and apparently nobody seems to care. On the other hand, people seems to be focused on those "instructions" the Rebbe never gave and overemphasize them while clear instructions are left unaccomplished/unoticed/unknown by chassidim. That was the point.

In other words, these never-gave-instructions-from-the-Rebbe should be treated as personal chumros. Do it if it pleases you and enhance your hiskashrus to the Rebbe, but don't present it as being what the Rebbe wanted. Moreover, the choice to pick that feature but not that other is arbitrary, because what's the basis for picking that one but not that one?
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Unread 02-28-2011, 12:18 PM   #36
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many ppl want to copy the Rebbe going to college, they go with suspenders and siddur Torah Or
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Unread 02-28-2011, 12:26 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
many ppl want to copy the Rebbe going to college, they go with suspenders and siddur Torah Or


On a little more serious tone, some others really went to college because the Rebbe did and they returned home with plenty of new ideas/idealism contrary to chassidus (not everyone who went to college, but I know some religious people who gave it a try for parnosso's sake and who ended almost out of the derekh, but that is for another thread). And I know some chassidim who justify smoking because the Rebbe did smoke in a time.
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Unread 02-28-2011, 02:41 PM   #38
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Let's make an effort to keep the thread on topic, please.

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Unread 03-02-2011, 04:25 PM   #39
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Interestingly, in Russian (Shamir) edition of Kitzur S"A, it says regarding tallis (number 12):

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Есть обычай так подвертывать внутрь края талита, лежащие на плечах, чтобы черных полос на талите не было видно.
There is a custom to roll inwards the sides of the tallis, laying on the shoulders, so that the black stripes of the tallis are not seen.

They also give two ways of folding tallis: one, such that the black stripes are seen, when the tallis is folded, and the other, such that they are not (which they say is the custom of Russian Jews):

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Есть два способа складывать талит: при первом талит с самого начала складывают так, чтобы лицевая сторона оказалась наружу, и тогда черные полосы оказываются сверху; при втором (более распространенном среди русских евреев) - талит с самого начала складывают изнанкой наружу, и тогда черные полосы оказываются внутри.
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