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Unread 04-02-2012, 01:10 AM   #1
noahidelaws
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The level of the Yidden in Mitzrayim

So we have a number of statements in Torah about the level of the Yidden in Mitzrayim that seem contradictory:


*halolu ovdei a"z va'halolu ovdei a"z
*the Yidden had sunken to the 49th level of tumah, and had a moment passed, they'd have been completely irredeemable
*the Yidden had to flee from Mitzrayim because the evil within was so strong (Tanya ch. 31)

yet

*the Yidden had kept shemam, leshonam, and luvasham
*the Yidden had not joined in with the Mitzriyim's corrupt practices
*Mitzrayim was a kur habarzel that refined the Yidden of all impurities, which implies that the longer they were there, the more refined they became
*the Yidden were redeemed bizechus ho'emunah, which implies that they had a lot of emunah

Some kind of tivuch is necessary.
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Unread 04-02-2012, 09:32 PM   #2
emes m'eretz
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Tanya chapter 31 (which you quote) explains it. At the same time that the bad was strong in the left side [of the heart], their [inner and deep] desire was to cleave to G-d.

A person can contain opposites. (for example, ...biliboi misitro doh... crying on one side of the heart, happiness on the other side)

As for the smelting pot (kur habarzel), it refined certain things, but other things were still problematic. (as a rough example, a therapist may work with a patient to heal certain issues, but other issues may not get resolved until the patient exits his harmful enivronment.)
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Unread 04-03-2012, 11:21 AM   #3
noahidelaws
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Thanks. Can you please quote a source that discusses specifically which faults the kur habarzel of Mitzrayim was mesaken, and which remained nevertheless (to the extent that the Yidden were almost completely irredeemable, R"l)?
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Unread 04-03-2012, 01:35 PM   #4
Torah613
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I do not see all the items in the second list contradicting the first list. For example, the fact that they didn't change levushom etc. Also, where does it say clearly that they did not join their corrupt practices - by which I assume you mean arayos? See Rashi Bamidbor 11:10.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 03:27 PM   #5
emes m'eretz
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Torah Or, page 74 (also Tanya igros kodesh 12) may be helpful.

Torah Or doesn't explain the specific refinement that you requested. It explains the general process; that via hard labor, the bad became solely bad, and thus dissipated.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 12:19 PM   #6
Torah613
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ע"פ הנחת הקושיא, יש להקשות עוד יותר, שהרי אילו עכבן כרגע כו', היינו שברגע של חצות עדיין היו משוקעים כו', הגם שהי' זה אחר כו"כ מצות מפורשות שניתנו להם וכבר קיימם בפועל
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