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Unread 01-05-2008, 01:30 PM   #126
Majorthinker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewishHiphop View Post
B"H

Wow, good for you that you love learning Torah so much. That is a wonderful thing.
But the Rebbe doesn't like it that I hate nittel nacht so much.
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Unread 12-24-2008, 05:43 PM   #127
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Bump.

Agav, this year, 28 (ko'ach) Kislev is Nittel Nacht. Just an interesting observation.
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Last edited by Smirnoff; 12-24-2008 at 06:07 PM. Reason: See PM...
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Unread 01-22-2009, 04:40 PM   #128
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Agav, there was a lot of back and forth discussion lately (in Kovetz Uburim- OT) if nittel is noiheg in EY at all. It's based on a letter from the Rebbe in IK 13:120.
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Unread 12-24-2009, 04:11 PM   #129
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Nittle Nacht

What will you do this Nitle Nacht (except studying Torah)?

Another question: since when does this custom exist?

Is there a Sicha or something in Chabad Chasidus speaking about that night?
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Unread 12-24-2009, 05:52 PM   #130
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Many Hungarian and Romanian Chassidic groups have the custom of following Nittlel Minhogim on Jan. 6 rather than Dec. 24, due to the differences in customs amongst ******ians in Hungary and Romania. I once asked a Bobover Chassid when he "keeps Nittel." Thankfully, he has a sense of humor.
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Unread 12-24-2009, 06:00 PM   #131
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Many are machmir the whole month of December and January to be sure. Some even longer...
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Unread 12-24-2009, 06:26 PM   #132
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What will you do this Nitle Nacht (except studying Torah)?
Hang around Chabad talk.
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Unread 12-24-2009, 06:59 PM   #133
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or listen rlt tapes
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Unread 12-24-2009, 07:38 PM   #134
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Where in the gemara does it say that those who are not sensitive to something are not Susceptible...
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I was hoping T613 would dig up a gemara for me on that topic....
I see that I did not answer this request from Gevurah - so what better time to pay off an old debt than nittel nacht ...

I assume that Gevurah means the Gemoro Psochim 110b כללא דמילתא כל דקפיד קפדי בהדיה ודלא קפיד לא קפדי בהדיה. Right?
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Unread 09-06-2011, 10:55 AM   #135
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Nittle nacht -- source in Kabbala/Chassidus/Halacha?

Besides the fact that the Rebbeim did not learn Torah on nittle nacht and encouraged others not to, is there any mokor for this minhog? I.e., is there any statement in Kabbala that learning on a birthday of someone who had passed away gives strength to his neshama, or to his teachings, etc.? Or, perhaps, if there is no such direct statement, there is a statement/idea from which this concept derives?
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Unread 09-06-2011, 04:41 PM   #136
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I don't understand your question.
The minhog of Nittel is an old minhog, that long predates Chabad and Chassidim - see the various seforim that deal with minhogim. The Rebbe'im merely added another reason. Are you trying to find an alternate source for this reason?
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Unread 09-06-2011, 05:34 PM   #137
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Is it a minhog that was specific to some community? It seems that nobody except Chassidim keeps it. There was a discussion on a blog, in which someone "accused" those who learn Kabbala of following "foolish" (in his opinion) minhogim like nittle nacht. To which another person responded that it's not a kabbalistic minhog, but a Chassidic one (and the first guy should "take it up with the chassidim") and listed all the communities (including Sefardic mikubolim and even Litvish who study Kabbala) that don't keep it. Plus, he said, it's not among the minhogim of Ari.

My question was: the explanation for the minhog is phrased in kabbalistic language. We don't say that we don't learn Torah on that night for some "social" or "psychological" reason (e.g., because learning Torah brings joy, and on such a night, Yidden should not be joyous). We bring a spiritual reason: that learning Torah on that day gives koach to Yoshke's neshama (or to his followers' teachings). Where is the theoretical basis for this statement? Is there a statement in Chassidus or Kabbala somewhere that when you learn Torah on yom hudeles of a Jew (or a goy) it gives koach to his neshama or to his teachings?
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Unread 09-06-2011, 05:58 PM   #138
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Is it a minhog that was specific to some community?
Nittel Nacht is not kept only by Chassidim. Maybe we are more machmir about it, but it is not a proof that we are the only ones.

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It seems that nobody except Chassidim keeps it.
People said the same about many other "chasidic" minhogim. For instance, people said that wearing a gartl was a chasidic invented minhag which has no source or basis anywhere in shas or sources other than chasidic texts, while in fact, it was a very old minhog even practiced in Bayis Sheni's period.

That Chasidim are the only one to keep some minhagim is not a proof that there is no basis or that we've invented a new minhog.
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Unread 09-06-2011, 06:02 PM   #139
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Is there a statement in Chassidus or Kabbala somewhere that when you learn Torah on yom hudeles of a Jew (or a goy) it gives koach to his neshama or to his teachings?
Why do you think the Rebbe asked, for instance, that on Rebbe Maharash's yarzheit, we should study the Rebbe Maharash's maamorim, etc.?
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Unread 09-06-2011, 06:12 PM   #140
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Sure. And I have also heard that when one sings a niggun, the author of the niggun is present. But are these statements written down in a seifer Kabbala or a ma'amor?

For instance: last Peisach I spent with my in-laws. I examined each matza to make sure that it was concave up. When my mother-in-law asked me what I was doing, I said that there is a minhog that the matzos represent keilim and therefore should be concave. If she had asked: "What are these keilim you're talking about?", I would explain that there is a Kabbalistic concept of spheroes which consist of oiros and keilim and show her a source (or a few).
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Unread 09-06-2011, 06:24 PM   #141
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If I understand well: when the Rebbe said, but doesn't provide a "source", what he said is wrong? (I'm just trying to understand your reasoning, not that I'm of the opinion that we should take everything at face value.)
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Unread 09-06-2011, 06:31 PM   #142
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If I understand well: when the Rebbe said, but doesn't provide a "source", what he said is wrong?
Chv"sh.

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I'm just trying to understand your reasoning
There is no reasoning. I am asking a question, not making a statement. For example, in a separate thread, someone mentioned that the Rebbe said that married women's hair should be two inches long. I could ask: what is the reason? Someone could say: it's a kabbalistic reason. Then I would ask: what is the source in Kabbala? Someone could say: it's a halachic reason. Then I would ask for halachic reasoning. Someone could say nothing in response. That doesn't mean that I would tell my wife to grow her hair long. I would just remain without an answer.
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Unread 09-06-2011, 06:49 PM   #143
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As I wrote before, the minhog of Nittel predates Chassidim, as any sefer will show you. However, in many communities it fell into disuse - since the simple reason (brought in the earlier sources) was a safety reason, which would not apply that much today. However, there are other reasons given which would apply. Therefore, some communities kept on with the minhog, and some didn't [agav, there is a story of the Tzemach Tzedek where it seems he was not overly makpid either].

In addition, those that lived in Moslem countries never had the minhog to begin with (like the Rebbe discusses in his letters). Which is why the Ari probably did not have the minhog, as it was not the minhog in EY.

Some of this is touched earlier in this thread.
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Unread 09-06-2011, 06:56 PM   #144
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Well, it seems there may be social/psychological reasons for the minhog, which no longer apply, and kabbalistic reasons, which may still do so. Which is why most communities except the chassidic ones don't keep it anymore (although maybe other chassidim keep it not because it has kabbalistic basis, but because it's a part of tradition). It seems this is why someone might call the reason for continuation of the custom "kabbalistic" (or "chassidic").
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Unread 09-06-2011, 08:12 PM   #145
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I - for one - don't see the reason of the Rashab as "kabbalistic", though it definitely is not "Halachik".
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Unread 09-07-2011, 07:34 AM   #146
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It also send an important message: never forget what Oso Ho'Ish and his disciples tried (and are still trying) to do to our people.
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