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Unread 10-18-2010, 01:28 PM   #1
Shmayumki
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Yaakov vs. Yankov

Ersht Shulom Aleichem everyone

Could anyone here shed light on the origins and validity of pronouncing Yankev? I know the Rebbe pronounced the name in question Yankev and that's good enough for me, but I was at a (chabad) shul when the shliach tzibbur said Avraham, Yitzchok v'Yankev and the rabbi stopped the bochur and made him repeat it 3 times until he got it "right".
I was told by a very knowledgeable person that the proper enunciation of the ayin is with a guttural, nun like sound. Can anyone verify this and if that is indeed true then why do we only hear the full ayin by Yaakov and not by Shma?
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Unread 10-18-2010, 03:59 PM   #2
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http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/show...ghlight=yankov
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Unread 10-18-2010, 05:34 PM   #3
Shmayumki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
I'm not sure it's just a dialect. If it was anyhow wouldn't that raise questions on kris hatorah as there obviously is no nun in Yaakov?

A quick google search will yield a few articles explaining the proper pronunciation of the ayin.
"As for Yankev, its nun is a vestigial remnant of the pharyngeal contraction of the ayin that disappeared in the Hebrew of Ashkenazic Europe. The same thing happened with the Hebrew word ma’aseh, a story or tall tale, which became mayseh in most of Eastern Europe but manseh in some areas. The reason for this is that in contracting the throat to produce the ayin, a degree of nasalization takes place, as well; when the contraction disappeared among European Jews, the nasalization was retained and even strengthened by some of them, producing an “n”-sound. This was especially true of Italian Jews, who regularly turned the ayin into a nun in many words. (For instance, the Hebrew word to’eva, abomination, which denotes a ******ian church in Judeo-Italian, was pronounced toneva.) Although I can’t at the moment think of other Hebrew words that have nun in place of ayin in Eastern Europe, perhaps some of you can. Be sure to let me know if you do."
http://www.dailyhebrew.com/category/Proto-Semitic/

I believe the Rambam and other poskim pasken that one who doesn't know how to pronounce the ayin properly should not daven for the amud. Sadly I don't have an actual makor offhand. Anyone know anything? I think there's more to the ayin.
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Unread 10-18-2010, 06:57 PM   #4
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actually the Rebbe did NOT say Yankev what it is, is that with proper pronunciation when you say a "patach ayin" you are supposed to say it sort of nasally which when said like that sounds like you are adding in a "nun"

try it yourself!

look in Rabbi Wolpe's book "vitoraso yivakshu mipihu " where he has a whole chapter on this
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Unread 10-18-2010, 10:19 PM   #5
Shmayumki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mothemilitant View Post
actually the Rebbe did NOT say Yankev what it is, is that with proper pronunciation when you say a "patach ayin" you are supposed to say it sort of nasally which when said like that sounds like you are adding in a "nun"

try it yourself!

look in Rabbi Wolpe's book "vitoraso yivakshu mipihu " where he has a whole chapter on this
Does anyone have this book and would they mind uploading the relevant chapter?
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Unread 10-19-2010, 07:56 PM   #6
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Ive searched through the online seforim data bases and i cant find it online so u may want to stop by your local seforim store
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Unread 10-20-2010, 01:24 PM   #7
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I would venture to guess that 99% of seforim stores don't carry Volpo.
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Unread 10-20-2010, 01:41 PM   #8
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http://fr-fr.facebook.com/pages/Shal...10880942296305

you can request to be his friend in facebook
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