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Unread 11-04-2009, 11:21 AM   #1
AkivaYitzhak
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Yaakov Lo Meis and the FR

Hi -

I know the Rebbe applied the story of Yehudah Hanasi coming back after his histalkus to the FR - that the same thing is with the FR.

But did the Rebbe ever apply Yaakov Lo Meis to the FR?

Also, is there a teaching "Moshe Lo Meis"? If so, where is this teaching found?

Thanks.
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Unread 11-04-2009, 02:20 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkivaYitzhak View Post
Hi -

I know the Rebbe applied the story of Yehudah Hanasi coming back after his histalkus to the FR - that the same thing is with the FR.

But did the Rebbe ever apply Yaakov Lo Meis to the FR?

Also, is there a teaching "Moshe Lo Meis"? If so, where is this teaching found?

Thanks.
Yaakov Lo Meis: [ATTACH]Yud Shevat 5726[/ATTACH]

Lo Meis Moshe: Sotah 13b
Quote:
בת קול משמיע ואומר וימת משה ספרא רבה דישראל ויש אומרים לא מת משה כתיב הכא וימת שם וכתיב התם (שמות לד, כח) ויהי שם עם ה' מה להלן עומד ומשמש אף כאן עומד ומשמש (דברים לד, ו)
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Unread 11-04-2009, 04:38 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankel Nosson View Post
Yaakov Lo Meis: [ATTACH]Yud Shevat 5726[/ATTACH]

Lo Meis Moshe: Sotah 13b
Thank you! I read the sicha. One question: why don't Chazal say the same thing about Avraham and Yitzchak? Why only Yaakov? Avraham and Yitzchak's lives must have been all ruchnius too, no? What about Moshe Rebbeinu, Ahron Hakohen, Yosef Hatzaddik, David Hamelech? Why do Chazal only say this about Yaakov?
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Unread 11-04-2009, 04:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkivaYitzhak View Post
Thank you! I read the sicha. One question: why don't Chazal say the same thing about Avraham and Yitzchak? Why only Yaakov? Avraham and Yitzchak's lives must have been all ruchnius too, no? What about Moshe Rebbeinu, Ahron Hakohen, Yosef Hatzaddik, David Hamelech? Why do Chazal only say this about Yaakov?
Maharsh'a answers your question in his comment to the Yaakov Avinu lo mes sugya in Taanis.
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Unread 11-04-2009, 04:57 PM   #5
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Maharsh'a answers your question in his comment to the Yaakov Avinu lo mes sugya in Taanis.
Thank you. I will look it up iyH.

Even though Chazal only say it about Yaakov, does the reality of this also apply to other great tzaddikim?

Duh, it must. In this sicha, the Rebbe applies it to the FR. So it must also apply to Avraham Avinu, Yitzchak Avinu, and some others.
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Unread 11-04-2009, 05:13 PM   #6
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Instead of making conclusions based upon your one-line explanation of the Rebbe's conclusion... learn the Maharsh''a.
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Unread 11-05-2009, 09:34 AM   #7
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My understanding of what the Maharsh"a is saying--

"Lo Meis" - "Just as his children are alive, is he also alive" can only be said about Yaakov since all of his children were tzaddikim, which was not the case with Avraham and Yitzchak. But the actual state of "lo meis" also applies to Avraham and Yitzchak even though it's not explicitly said about them.
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Unread 11-05-2009, 01:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkivaYitzhak View Post
Even though Chazal only say it about Yaakov, does the reality of this also apply to other great tzaddikim?

Duh, it must. In this sicha, the Rebbe applies it to the FR. So it must also apply to Avraham Avinu, Yitzchak Avinu, and some others.
This over simplifies things and rides roughshod over the klolim of learning Torah.

The gemara goes out of the way to say "lo meis" about Yaakov indicating that he is unique in this respect of all the avos. There are meforashim that explain what the difference is more specifically. We have to learn what chazal are telling us, not create fanciful speculation.

Seforim tell us that all tzaddikim live forever; Tanya tells us that a tzaddik (not this or that tzaddik, but tzaddikim in general) are more alive after they pass away than when they were so-called "alive" in the garb of this world. But only by Yaakov do we see that "lo meis" (and in the meforashim, such as Rabbeinu Bachya, as you know, we find that this is also the phenomenon that occurred with Rabbeinu Hakadosh returning to his family to make kiddush).

Advice: recognize that Torah is G-dly intellect and that your own intellect is...well...NOT!

Besoros tovos
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Unread 11-05-2009, 02:07 PM   #9
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There is a source that says that Avraham Avinu was counted in a minyan after his petirah. And the Rebbe uses this source together with the example of Yehudah Hanasi to show that special tzaddikim can be mekayim mitzvos in this world after their petirah. So, if "lo meis" applies to Yehudah Hanasi, it would also seem to apply to Avraham Avinu.
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Unread 11-05-2009, 02:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkivaYitzhak View Post
There is a source that says that Avraham Avinu was counted in a minyan after his petirah. And the Rebbe uses this source together with the example of Yehudah Hanasi to show that special tzaddikim can be mekayim mitzvos in this world after their petirah. So, if "lo meis" applies to Yehudah Hanasi, it would also seem to apply to Avraham Avinu.
"It would seem".

Go see what our revered sages have to say. Daas balabatim hepech laTorah.
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Unread 11-05-2009, 02:29 PM   #11
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"It would seem".

Go see what our revered sages have to say. Daas balabatim hepech laTorah.
They say it only applies to Yaakov Avinu and Yehudah Hanasi?
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Unread 11-06-2009, 01:49 PM   #12
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See Igros of the Rebbe v 1 p 36-37 (also printed in LS v 4 1260-1).
LS v 26 p 6-8 about the terminology "Lo mes" in Chazal specifically by Yaakov and Moshe.
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Unread 03-06-2011, 06:47 PM   #13
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Yaakov Lo Mes - Yaakov Never Died

There is a great sicha about "Yaakov Lo Mes - Yaakov Never Died" printed in "V'Hu Yigaleinu", in both Hebrew edition, and in the English edition.

Does anyone know where this is printed as well?

The saying, "Moshe Lo Mes - Moshe Never Died" is from the Zohar as well.

The Rebbe speaks about there being a necessity for a hefsek b'chayim, an interuption in life with a period of death. Rabbi Yossi Ginzburg, then a bachur and now a rosch yeshiva in Ramat Aviv, explained that this refers to a person's greatest sense of bittul.
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Unread 05-24-2011, 07:11 PM   #14
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There is a concept with all Tzaddikim that they have two bodies--one spiritual which endures and they use when they go up to Heaven. The other physical, which they use down here. The example is Eliyahu Hanavi.

I just saw this discussed somewhere. I think Zohar, Emor.

However, only some Tzaddikim have the physical connection revealed now. Others physical connection remains more dormant until Mashiach comes.

About Avraham, etc. see story in Bava Basra when visited Kevarim... (pg?)
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Unread 05-24-2011, 08:29 PM   #15
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Key Ruach

The spiritual aspect is called "ruach", which applies to every Jew.
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Unread 05-24-2011, 08:34 PM   #16
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Post Physical aspect of the Jew

By some tzaddikim this is one directional after the demise of the body, and some very great tzaddimin, like Rabbeinu Hakodesh, this is even multi-directional. The LR adash nashad experienced supra-directioinal materializing his guf both before and his demise.
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