Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Torah and Judaism > General

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 05-21-2004, 11:30 AM   #51
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
I'd look it up if you provided a source.
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2004, 06:30 AM   #52
Bittul
Executive Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,336
Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
I'd look it up if you provided a source.
I'm glad to hear that you think of me that way, however I can't remember at the drop of a hat where quotes are.

It's in a lengthier discussion about Chinuch, during which the FR mentions that amol parents were simpler, and therefore children were simpler.
Bittul is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2004, 08:26 AM   #53
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
you had over Shabbos to find it

anyway, a clarification is in order here (I realized this on Shabbos):

you responded to my writing "can you you quote the Rebbe on that" which was actually (for those who remember the posts of that Friday) in response to an unacceptably-worded comment which was deleted by the moderator (note Rabbi D's post)

once the post was "sanitized" my comment no longer applied

now back to the thread topic - please look back and you'll see that I responded to a comment which maintained that only super-special people can tell what a true hergesh is. I disagree, even taking into account that earlier generations were "simpler" or "more pure". We see for ourselves that (to quote myself) "sometimes it's the simple ones who have a better "feel" for these things than those who pride themselves on their rational, intellectual faculties." There are beautiful contemporay stories that we all come across in our reading (at least I do) that demonstrate hergeshim of "ordinary" people.

[See parshas Eikev, Lik. Sichos, vol. 9 p. 71 where the Rebbe talks about the spiritual greatess of previous generations vs. the bittul of the ikvesa d'meshicha generation (wherein we do mitzvos without the inspiration of previous generations but we have a different maaleh - our commitment to the mitzvos despite our lack of spirituality) and how the point is to combine both advantages]
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2004, 08:28 AM   #54
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
note: some posts refer to the person having the hergesh (simple person or not) while other posts are referring to those who can discern whether a hergesh is commendable or not

makes it a bit confusing
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2004, 09:43 AM   #55
poshut
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 264
Here's a hergesh gone awry: a handfull of bochurim have a hergesh that the Rebbe davens every day with the minyan at 770.

Ten minutes before the appointed time, they start singing, clapping and raising their voices (a la what is customary while saying yechi) to make themselves sound more than their actual numbers, disturbing a shul FULL of people studying, davening etc. Then comes the shvil part etc. etc.

Pacifists are justifying this idiocy as the bochurim living their hergesh. What's so terrible if they think they see the Rebbe?

This is a bad hergesh. This is a wrong hergesh. This is a hergesh intruding on other people's lives.

In truth, this is not a hergesh at all. It probably does not belong here (Jude).
poshut is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2004, 09:50 AM   #56
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
Quote:
Originally posted by chassidus
I would draw a conclusion from here: that hergeshim are personal and should be kept out of debates.
Quote:
originally posted by yankel nosson
Aharon haKohen!
doing your best NOT to emulate Aharon ha'Kohen, Poshut?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2004, 09:54 AM   #57
poshut
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 264
point?
poshut is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2004, 10:20 AM   #58
Yankel Nosson
Senior Platinum Member
 
Yankel Nosson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,259
Quote:
Originally posted by poshut
This is a bad hergesh. This is a wrong hergesh. This is a hergesh intruding on other people's lives.

In truth, this is not a hergesh at all. It probably does not belong here (Jude).


Originally posted by Jude
doing your best NOT to emulate Aharon ha'Kohen, Poshut?
Pinchas ben Elazar ben Aharon Hakohen!
__________________
Chassidim must study Chassidus--HaYom Yom 21Kislev
Yankel Nosson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2004, 08:23 PM   #59
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
have those who object to saluting the (invisible) Rebbe at the Lag B'Omer parade and who disdain "davening with the Rebbe" in the "Rebbe's minyanim" also given up making chuppas outside 770 "to be near the Rebbe"?

if not, why not?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2004, 08:51 PM   #60
shoyn
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,121
do the saluters etc rely on the Rebbe to be mesader kidushin?
shoyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2004, 09:44 PM   #61
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
have those who object to saluting the (invisible) Rebbe at the Lag B'Omer parade and who disdain "davening with the Rebbe" in the "Rebbe's minyanim" also given up making chuppas outside 770 "to be near the Rebbe"?

if not, why not?
I don't really understand the connection and comparison of all these items. As far as chupahs are concerned, there probably is the maaloh of making the chupah in (the yard of) TT. The maaloh of making the chupah in the "4 amos" of the Rebbe's room ( ) etc etc.
What this has to do with salutes, shvills and other shigyonos and play-acting - is beyond me.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 07:59 AM   #62
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
torah613: sounds to me like what you're saying is you approve of one hergesh but not of others

the inconsistency on the part of those who denounce other Chasidim is rather blatant
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 09:21 AM   #63
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally posted by Jude in another thread
and leave out the put-downs
Did you get dollars this past Sunday? Why not?
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 09:29 AM   #64
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
what does that have to do with making a chuppa near 770 to be near a Rebbe who you say isn't there?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 09:39 AM   #65
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Look at what I wrote first (http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/show...5122#post75122), then ask me questions.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 10:23 AM   #66
daas
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 394
Jude, I fail to get your point.

BTW are you aware that there is a Sicha where the Rebbe talks about the mailo of a chosson getting his aliya in the Rebbe's (FR) room even though it was after yud shevat.
daas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 11:46 AM   #67
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
torah613:
I looked at what you wrote, when you wrote it, and the point remains the same. You pick the hergeshim that appeal to you and denigrate those of other Chassidim.

Daas: re the aliya etc. - that's precisely the point. Pick and choose.
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 01:52 PM   #68
daas
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 394
I still don't understand, I tell you a sicha, and you tell me 'hergaishim'.
daas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 02:12 PM   #69
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Nah - a sicha of the Rebbe has as much validity (in some peoples eyes) as ... the antics of some half baked meshugoim (to be charitible) in ... who make up their religion as they go along.
Nu nu. Nebach.

Last edited by Torah613; 05-24-2004 at 02:21 PM.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 02:20 PM   #70
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
torah613:
I looked at what you wrote, when you wrote it, and the point remains the same. You pick the hergeshim that appeal to you and denigrate those of other Chassidim.

Daas: re the aliya etc. - that's precisely the point. Pick and choose.
The difference is obvious: One has a mokor (according to Daas a clear sicha! daas - where is it?), the other is "man-made". Salutes, shvills, lekach and who knows what else (I am not up to date with all the latest fads BH).
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 05:12 PM   #71
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
re getting an aliya in the Rebbe's room if you're a chasan - so ever since the Rebbe said that sicha (if he did, source?) chasanim have been getting their aliyos in the Rebbe's room? ...

(p.s. torah613 - I asked you in the Beard thread - when do you accept unsubstantiated quotes and when do you reject them? ...)
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 05:36 PM   #72
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
What unsabstantiated quote are you referring to? The sicha daas mentioned? I asked him where it is! My original statement didn't stand on his quote!
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 05:54 PM   #73
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
Quote:
Originally posted by Torah613
The difference is obvious: One has a mokor ...
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 05:59 PM   #74
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Correct. The mokor I mentioned in http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/show...5122#post75122
...
But the sicha daas mentions would for sure be nice...
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2004, 06:13 PM   #75
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
your "makor" is worded as "probably"
what makes it a makor?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com