Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Torah and Judaism > Teenagers

Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Unread 09-14-2008, 07:31 AM   #51
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
And maybe - just maybe - you opened to the wrong page.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2008, 01:07 PM   #52
Majorthinker
Executive Diamond Member
 
Majorthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,615
How would someone like that know which one the right page is? Either you do it randomly, or you don't.
__________________
!חסידים איין משפחה
One big happy family!

הוי כתלמידיו של אהרן הכהן!
Majorthinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2008, 05:25 PM   #53
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Yes, but not every random page means anything. Which is why this is a futile excersize.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-15-2008, 07:29 AM   #54
Majorthinker
Executive Diamond Member
 
Majorthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,615
Which is why I can assume that you do not open Igrot to any random page, and put your letter in.
__________________
!חסידים איין משפחה
One big happy family!

הוי כתלמידיו של אהרן הכהן!
Majorthinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-15-2008, 07:43 AM   #55
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
You mean me personally? Of course I don't (unless you mean in the spirit of the Rebbe's letter before 10 Shvat 5711).
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-15-2008, 08:54 AM   #56
Majorthinker
Executive Diamond Member
 
Majorthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,615
Yes, I was referring to you personally. I didn't think you did. 'In the spirit of the Rebbe's letter?'
__________________
!חסידים איין משפחה
One big happy family!

הוי כתלמידיו של אהרן הכהן!
Majorthinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-15-2008, 08:57 AM   #57
shlucha14
Executive Member
 
shlucha14's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
Yes, but not every random page means anything. Which is why this is a futile excersize.
That's very strange to hear- I can say without a doubt that every single 'random page' I've ever opened up to has had a clear significance to exactly what I was referring to. Am I just lucky or did I misunderstand you?
__________________
n'eNow!
shlucha14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-15-2008, 11:12 AM   #58
Majorthinker
Executive Diamond Member
 
Majorthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,615
I can already guess what the response will be. But we'll say that you just got lucky.
__________________
!חסידים איין משפחה
One big happy family!

הוי כתלמידיו של אהרן הכהן!
Majorthinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-15-2008, 06:18 PM   #59
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majorthinker View Post
Yes, I was referring to you personally. I didn't think you did. 'In the spirit of the Rebbe's letter?'
Yes, the letter of Rosh Chodesh Shvat 5711, where he says to write a פ"נ on Yud Shvat, and either place it at the Ohel (if one is there), or place it between the pages of a maamar.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-15-2008, 06:21 PM   #60
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by shlucha14 View Post
That's very strange to hear- I can say without a doubt that every single 'random page' I've ever opened up to has had a clear significance to exactly what I was referring to. Am I just lucky or did I misunderstand you?
I can also open a random page at any given moment (of Igros - or almost any other sefer, for that matter), and find "significance". Therefore?
See also above post # 16.
But this issue was debated already at length in other threads.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-15-2008, 08:01 PM   #61
Ani Maamin
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
And maybe - just maybe - you opened to the wrong page.
I dont think its a question of opening to the wrong page. The question is if the Rebbe is answering you through the igros at all and if your understanding the answer.

Many times the answer brings a person more sfeikois as to what to do instead of giving him an answer. In that case you need to head to you mashpia and/or get advice from Yeddidim Umevinim like the Rebbe clearly told us to do.

Last edited by Ani Maamin; 09-15-2008 at 09:30 PM.
Ani Maamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-15-2008, 08:06 PM   #62
shlucha14
Executive Member
 
shlucha14's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
I can also open a random page at any given moment (of Igros - or almost any other sefer, for that matter), and find "significance". Therefore?
See also above post # 16.
But this issue was debated already at length in other threads.
But post # 16 is dealing with issues the Rebbe clearly and publicly addressed, which doesn't cover everything. And when I say significance, maybe I should've been clearer. I mean direct answers as to exactly what to do in a specific situation.
__________________
n'eNow!
shlucha14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-15-2008, 08:18 PM   #63
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ani Maamin View Post
Many times the answer brings a person more sfeikois as to what to do instead of giving him an answer. In that case you need to head to you mashpia and/or get advice from Yeddidim Umevinim like the Rebbe clearly told us to do.
And here is the crux of the issue: If the Rebbe gave clear instructions what to do about when one has a problem - to speak to yeddidim etc., as outlined in the sicha of Trumah 5748 and other sichos in that time period - why invent a new way that goes first before doing what the Rebbe clearly said? Why head to the yedidim afterward (like you write: "In that case")?

Last edited by Torah613; 09-16-2008 at 08:06 AM.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-15-2008, 09:28 PM   #64
Ani Maamin
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
And here is the crux of the issue: If the Rebbe gave clear instructions what to do about when one has a problem - to speak to yeddidim etc., as outlined in the sicha of Trumah 5748 and other sichos in that time period - why invent a new way that goes first before doing what the Rebbe clearly said? Why head to the yedidim afterward (like you write: In that case")?
My mistake. Your right, we should go to the yedidim and ask a mashpia as the primary way of getting advice. But there are people who use the igros and report that they get answers (which I do not doubt, what I do doubt is that they get clear answers all the time) and what I'm saying is that they have to keep in mind that they do not always get answers from the Rebbe (just like before gimul tamuz we didnt always get answers) and even if there is an answer they might not understand it, which will leave them with a bigger sofek then before they opened. And for that I'm saying they need to go to a mashpia and yedidim.
Ani Maamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-16-2008, 07:21 AM   #65
HeyHello
Junior Member
 
HeyHello's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ani Maamin View Post
And for that I'm saying they need to go to a mashpia and yedidim.
why does everything end up with ask your mashpia?????
__________________
Dont just think world peace, do something to achieve it!
HeyHello is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-16-2008, 08:45 AM   #66
Majorthinker
Executive Diamond Member
 
Majorthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
Yes, the letter of Rosh Chodesh Shvat 5711, where he says to write a פ"נ on Yud Shvat, and either place it at the Ohel (if one is there), or place it between the pages of a maamar.
Ah, that one.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
I can also open a random page at any given moment (of Igros - or almost any other sefer, for that matter), and find "significance". Therefore?
See also above post # 16.
But this issue was debated already at length in other threads.
This is true. And therefore, nothing- it means nothing. (Whoops, I shouldn't say that, or tonight the Rebbe will ask me why....)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ani Maamin View Post
I dont think its a question of opening to the wrong page. The question is if the Rebbe is answering you through the igros at all and if your understanding the answer.
Understand the answer- who the Rebbe told you to ask, and what he told you to do. Alternatively, learn the Rebbe's opinion on the topic at hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlucha14 View Post
But post # 16 is dealing with issues the Rebbe clearly and publicly addressed, which doesn't cover everything. And when I say significance, maybe I should've been clearer. I mean direct answers as to exactly what to do in a specific situation.
Isn't that what a mashpia is for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyHello View Post
why does everything end up with ask your mashpia?????
Because that was what the Rebbe said to do.
__________________
!חסידים איין משפחה
One big happy family!

הוי כתלמידיו של אהרן הכהן!
Majorthinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-16-2008, 07:35 PM   #67
GroisaTzadik
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 129
R. Shochet, a former anti - igross had a story where his sister was very sick, and they opened up the Igros and it said what it said to do. He kept ignoring it and then a family member opened up an igros again where the Rebbe responded, "I already andswered such and such" Bekitzur, everything worked out as they followed what the Rebbe suggested. He then called the entire Yeshiva and publicly apologized for ever having put it down, Until today he believes that it could work given certain circumsatannces and that it is a real thing, although it many times it doesn't work.
There's no question that it doesn't replace a Mashpia etc.
GroisaTzadik is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-16-2008, 07:45 PM   #68
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Sounds like you are confusing 2 or 3 different stories.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-16-2008, 09:02 PM   #69
GroisaTzadik
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 129
You have a point. Although I know for a fact that he got up and appologized for his non-negotiable lack of tolerance for Igros - opening, based on something that happened in his family (and I'nm not saying that he promotes it now full-force either).
GroisaTzadik is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-17-2008, 02:02 AM   #70
shlucha14
Executive Member
 
shlucha14's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majorthinker View Post

Isn't that what a mashpia is for?
Yes...unfortunately, where I am there is no-one who can be my mashpia. I am looking, though! Until I find one, I ask the Rebbe for really important things. Please, no-one follow my example- if you can find a mashpia, get one!
__________________
n'eNow!
shlucha14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-17-2008, 07:36 AM   #71
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
In that sicha (I brought above - and other sichos from that period), the Rebbe also speaks about yedidim. See there.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2009, 01:32 PM   #72
tiferet
Member
 
tiferet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 59
I heard (i actually might have seen a video of it, to be exact) that the Rebbe said, that if a chossid should wonder what is he going to do "after the Rebbe's 120 years" when he has a question that he would have consulted with the Rebbe about, that he should ask a chassishe Rav. these are the rebbe's horaos. some poeple have an einyan to open the igros to get a bracha after they made a decision...but i think it's kinda weird to make a decision based on the igros...but who am i to say, maybe i should consult a chassidishe rav about whether or not i should make a decision based on the igros, but of course, every rav is gonna tell me something else so i better "write in" about which chassidishe rav to ask...
tiferet is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2009, 07:31 PM   #73
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
מוצאי שבת תרומה תשמ"ח
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2009, 10:26 PM   #74
chossidnistar
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
I missed the Moshichist pshat of this
chossidnistar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-18-2009, 02:07 AM   #75
emes m'eretz
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
מוצאי שבת תרומה תשמ"ח
I looked at Otzar770 under "hisvaadus" and there is no sicha for the date you mention.
emes m'eretz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How many Letters are there in The Tanach King David Torah 37 04-27-2007 03:21 AM
sofit letters Kapote Chassidus 5 11-14-2005 02:57 AM
Igros Kodesh - The Rebbe's Letters qwert Lubavitch Minhagim 52 08-15-2005 05:17 PM
Boruch Hashem in Letters Chabad-Yudele The Rebbe’s Talks & Writings 22 08-29-2004 07:45 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com