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Unread 05-10-2007, 12:47 AM   #26
chossidnistar
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I used to get Anti Chabad remarks very often , thanks to our Moshich friends, but , BH, not lately
I have to tell you that most of these guys, they used them as a pretext to justificate their hate and jelousy against Lub.

Many of them even they received this Hate Tradition from their Rabbis
So the best answer to these remarks, is to make a Kidush Lub in everything we do in our enviroments, going beyond our capabilities, being the first to help, the first to daven, the first to learn, the first to teach
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Unread 05-10-2007, 08:02 AM   #27
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B'seder..... Why are so many people against Moshiach?
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Unread 05-10-2007, 08:14 AM   #28
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they claim that , on the contarry , they go for Moshiach
they go against Chabad, not against Moshiach
They are in generall against Moshchistm b/c that is preventing Moshiach to come ans changing the Torah , creating a new religion , IOW , AZ
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Unread 05-10-2007, 08:21 AM   #29
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ARGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!! Can I scream? How do Moshichisten create a new religion? We ARE NOT changing the Torah. Although there is a mitzvah- on both sides- of Ahavas Yisrael, and the lack thereof might be what is preventing Moshiach from coming.
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Unread 05-10-2007, 08:35 AM   #30
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ARGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!! Can I scream? How do Moshichisten create a new religion? We ARE NOT changing the Torah. Although there is a mitzvah- on both sides- of Ahavas Yisrael, and the lack thereof might be what is preventing Moshiach from coming.
well, to add a new principle like to say Yechi (with all the hilchos Yechi)davenen, Torah reading, benching, some ppl in kedusha, et, before Shema, before Mode Ani, before the mIKVEH) Some ppl they stand in benching to say it, etc, the issue of the Rebbe alive with a guf, not in the Ohel, the red carpet, chair, farbrengens with lchaims, dollars, et ) when al pi halacha ...., Igros, etc
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Unread 05-10-2007, 10:01 AM   #31
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- never heard of hilchos yechi
- after davening, not in davening
- during krias hatorah, if you can say a drasha, you can talk. so yechi does not constitute any worse an interruption than shtus, aderabba.
- if you want to say it before saying shema at night, who cares.
- um, before modeh ani is an issue, i dont know where they got that from. try after modeh ani
- before the mikveh- is that an issue or a harmless obsession?
- if you add a harachaman in bentching, and choose to stand for that harachaman, it might be odd, but it is nothing against halacha
- igros is not a issue in halacha, but used improperly (ask your mashpia for the proper derech) does no good
- al pi halacha is important, though let me remind you that unfortunately very few of us live according to every halacha
- guf and not ohel is dealt with in another thread, i think
- who cares about the red carpet and chair? or does it just bug you?
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Unread 05-10-2007, 10:07 AM   #32
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In your shul they have droshos in middle of kriah? Oy vey, I am staying away...
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Unread 05-10-2007, 10:10 AM   #33
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Not in the middle of kriah, before krias hatorah, or after krias hatorah, before mussaf. Sorry for that.
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Unread 05-10-2007, 12:05 PM   #34
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- never heard of hilchos yechi
- after davening, not in davening
- during krias hatorah, if you can say a drasha, you can talk. so yechi does not constitute any worse an interruption than shtus, aderabba.
- if you want to say it before saying shema at night, who cares.
- um, before modeh ani is an issue, i dont know where they got that from. try after modeh ani
- before the mikveh- is that an issue or a harmless obsession?
- if you add a harachaman in bentching, and choose to stand for that harachaman, it might be odd, but it is nothing against halacha
- igros is not a issue in halacha, but used improperly (ask your mashpia for the proper derech) does no good
- al pi halacha is important, though let me remind you that unfortunately very few of us live according to every halacha
- guf and not ohel is dealt with in another thread, i think
- who cares about the red carpet and chair? or does it just bug you?
hey, I do not care about anything of this,
I do not care when ppl says Yechi o don't ,
I do not care about red carpet, chair, who cares?
If this brings you chayus and you stay religious b/c of that, good

I was telling you , that all these things are not in the regular SH, therefore many ppl not LUb, make these remarks anti Chabad, or like this idea to believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach, otherwise you are a Koifer, is not in a regular SH, so , ppl compalin about these new laws, or like the new chiddush , that " u do not fast in public fasts, and this is the way to bring Moshiach", for instance this is even against what is written in any SH, so to amny ppl , it looks like a
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Unread 05-10-2007, 01:36 PM   #35
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I'm just pointing out that most is not against S"A. Most of these things I do not do- though I wear a yellow flag, I do not consider myself fanatic- just a little crazy. I stay religious why? Hm, good question. Probably not for the right reasons, but definitely they are not these reasons. But I am a frum Yid, and love Torah and mitzvos. In addition, I do not believe that doing these things takes away from being a frum Yid, or is a breach in S"A.
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Unread 05-10-2007, 04:05 PM   #36
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. In addition, I do not believe that doing these things takes away from being a frum Yid, or is a breach in S"A.
it is not a question if u believe or not, buy many ppl they see this as a breach in SA and it is the source odf anti Chabad remarks
if you see , for example another Jewish groop( orthodox, modern, or chassidim) that they start doing things that are not in SA (like eating in fast days, they have another Moshiach ((na nach ), they start making a cult to say na nach , and if you do not say it, you r a koifer of the all Torah, kulah,or women havng alyos (by the way Min HaTorah women are allowed to have an alya ) and they make these things as the more importants , what are you going to say? Are you going to joim them?b/c they claim that this is Iddishkait?
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Unread 05-10-2007, 09:19 PM   #37
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na nach nachma...to uman, uman hey, to uman uman hey, rosh hashana! lol. um eating on fast days is assur, they are tinokos shenishbu. women are allowed to have aliyos, but we do not do that bc its a tznius issue, no? ok.....so there are some things that should not be done. most yechiniks (never got a proper definition of chinyaked, btw) do not do those things. most normal jews dont. ok, so we agree on that. but yechi- and 'meshichists', as long as they follow s"a, should not be told off.
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Unread 05-10-2007, 09:55 PM   #38
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women are allowed to have aliyos, but we do not do that bc its a tznius issue, no? .

Kavod Hatzibur
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Unread 05-10-2007, 10:09 PM   #39
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Oh, I see. In any case, we do not do it.....don't know about you.

Being that I am currently feeling quite sick, and am probably dehydrated, both b'gashmiyus and b'ruchniyus, I think I will sign off.

*Wave your yellow flag and tell the world you want Moshiach!*
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Unread 05-10-2007, 11:03 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
they claim that , on the contarry , they go for Moshiach
they go against Chabad, not against Moshiach
They are in generall against Moshchistm b/c that is preventing Moshiach to come ans changing the Torah , creating a new religion , IOW , AZ
kol haposel-- be muma possel
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Unread 05-10-2007, 11:12 PM   #41
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kol haposel-- be muma possel
this is what hold most non LUB that say anti Chabad remarks,
I am personally against the Boreinu Yotzreinu issue
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Unread 05-11-2007, 08:46 AM   #42
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kol haposel-- be muma possel
can you either say this in English or type this in Hebrew?

Chossidnistar- which Boreinu Yotzreinu issue?
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Unread 05-11-2007, 09:26 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Majorthinker View Post
- never heard of hilchos yechi
- after davening, not in davening
- during krias hatorah, if you can say a drasha, you can talk. so yechi does not constitute any worse an interruption than shtus, aderabba.
- if you want to say it before saying shema at night, who cares.
- um, before modeh ani is an issue, i dont know where they got that from. try after modeh ani
- before the mikveh- is that an issue or a harmless obsession?
- if you add a harachaman in bentching, and choose to stand for that harachaman, it might be odd, but it is nothing against halacha
- igros is not a issue in halacha, but used improperly (ask your mashpia for the proper derech) does no good
- al pi halacha is important, though let me remind you that unfortunately very few of us live according to every halacha
- guf and not ohel is dealt with in another thread, i think
- who cares about the red carpet and chair? or does it just bug you?
The above (and other posts), is based on the premise, that as long as something is not directly against halacha and SA, there is nothing wrong in inventing new minhogom and new rituals, like adding rituals to kriah (a yechi after the birchas hatorah) etc. etc.
IMHO, that is a faulty premise. Adding new rituals without solid basis goes under the guidline of כל המוסיף גורע, like the Rebbe writes in letters about those that added new types of "minhogim".
I don't think there is an example of a minhog that the Rebbe started or instituted, that did not exist before, and that was not solidly based on previous sources.
In other, simple words: Not everything goes, even if it is not flat out against halacho...
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Unread 05-12-2007, 01:40 PM   #44
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I don't think it constitutes inventing minhagim; I think it's more like your obsessions, which doesn't constitute an issue unless it's kneged halacha.
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Unread 05-12-2007, 10:02 PM   #45
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1) The beginning of your sentence does not match the end - first it isn't minhogim (though why you don't consider many of things new rituals, I don't know), than you say that that it is new problem unless it is against halocho, implying that a new ritual in itself is no problem.
2) ... therefore totally ignoring the main thrust of my post: The Rebbe did not condone new rituals.
3) ... and instead of dealing with the issues, getting personal ("your obssesions") - which frankly does not surprise me (and no, I am not offended - I could not care less ... just shows a way of wiggling out of an issue without addressing it)...
Cannot say I am surprised.
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Unread 05-12-2007, 10:24 PM   #46
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I don't think it constitutes inventing minhagim; I think it's more like your obsessions, which doesn't constitute an issue unless it's kneged halacha.
Doesn't it seem strange that in a chassidus such as Lubavitch where there is (was?) a strong sense of pride in one's heritage, minhagim, "shpitz Chabad", etc. that you are introducing new rituals that were invented by drunk bochurim, with no precedent in the entire history of the Jewish people?
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Unread 05-12-2007, 11:31 PM   #47
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can you either say this in English or type this in Hebrew?

Chossidnistar- which Boreinu Yotzreinu issue?
yellow flaggers in the higest levels, insert these expressions ( in reference to the Rebbe)in kedusha in davening
I do not care about Yechi ( if this is something that can help someone to keep him/her frum with chayus,but I would not advise anybody to advance in their Mosh level, b/c it could be very dangerous
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Unread 05-13-2007, 07:07 AM   #48
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1) The beginning of your sentence does not match the end - first it isn't minhogim (though why you don't consider many of things new rituals, I don't know), than you say that that it is new problem unless it is against halocho, implying that a new ritual in itself is no problem.
2) ... therefore totally ignoring the main thrust of my post: The Rebbe did not condone new rituals.
3) ... and instead of dealing with the issues, getting personal ("your obssesions") - which frankly does not surprise me (and no, I am not offended - I could not care less ... just shows a way of wiggling out of an issue without addressing it)...
Cannot say I am surprised.
1) Let me split my sentence in two: I do not think it constitutes inventing new minhogim. I think it constitutes having an obsession. Obsessions that do not go against halacha are not assur.

2) It is an obsession, not an official ritual. Though that doesn't give anyone a license to go overboard.

3) The pronoun 'your' was not intended towards any one person or group of people, it was completely general, and if you would listen to me speak, then you would see that.
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Unread 05-13-2007, 07:08 AM   #49
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Doesn't it seem strange that in a chassidus such as Lubavitch where there is (was?) a strong sense of pride in one's heritage, minhagim, "shpitz Chabad", etc. that you are introducing new rituals that were invented by drunk bochurim, with no precedent in the entire history of the Jewish people?
I myself am not introducing any new rituals, and anything that is 'new' is my own thing. Thank you.
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Unread 05-13-2007, 07:11 AM   #50
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yellow flaggers in the higest levels, insert these expressions ( in reference to the Rebbe)in kedusha in davening
I do not care about Yechi ( if this is something that can help someone to keep him/her frum with chayus,but I would not advise anybody to advance in their Mosh level, b/c it could be very dangerous
1) Kedusha is a problem, and I will admit it, but I think that speaking dvarim b'teilim during davening, kedusha, and chazaras hashatz constitutes no less of a problem. Assur l'daber bishaas hatefilla.

2) Your sinah is seeping through....to say that it is 'dangerous' to advance in your Mosh level? Thank you.....if you want Moshiach, get rid of the sinas chinam.
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