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Unread 09-17-2002, 05:18 PM   #101
Shlucha
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out of 100 Lubavitcher schools, how many are co-ed? I'm just curious. It seems that whatever schools are co-ed they are mostly older, anyway (unless its like a preschool or something). Or maybe I'm wrong (if so, correct me)
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Unread 08-11-2003, 01:12 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
send their children to co-ed schools? how about shluchim running co-ed schools?
A school is a great thing to have in your community when you're on shlichus. If you can, that is. And if there is not already one. Now if you are the only frum family in the town, do you think you have more of a chance of getting non-frum people to come to your school when its co-ed, or when you have two separate schools????
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Unread 08-11-2003, 02:43 AM   #103
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A school is a great thing to have in your community when you're on shlichus. If you can, that is. And if there is not already one. Now if you are the only frum family in the town, do you think you have more of a chance of getting non-frum people to come to your school when its co-ed, or when you have two separate schools????
Not to mention the fact that to run two separate schools costs double the money. So if a Shliach can afford only one school, should he make it just boys or girls, thereby depriving half the Jewish children of the opportunity to learn Yiddishkeit, or make it mixed?
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Unread 08-11-2003, 09:24 AM   #104
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Excellent points, Shlucha and stwill.
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Unread 08-11-2003, 12:15 PM   #105
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stwill, thats a really good point and I was actually going to say that, but I was afraid of getting jumped on!!!
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Unread 08-11-2003, 02:20 PM   #106
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surely the Rebbe answered this question decades ago
what did the Rebbe say?
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Unread 08-11-2003, 09:51 PM   #107
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surely. And since the schools stayed open, and more were built, is it safe to assume.....
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Unread 08-11-2003, 09:57 PM   #108
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But anyway, I think there's two issues here that we're mixing up. One is the shliach opening a day school, and the other is the shliach's children and other Lubavitcher children attending this day school. Opening one, which would be primarly for non-frum kids, sounds like a great idea. I mean, they'd go to a co-ed public school anyway, so whats the difference if it's Jewish. And tons of kids became frum just through a day school.

The second issue is the Shliach's kids going to the co-ed school. Most co-ed schools are split for Hebrew once the kids are in sixth grade, and if they have high schools they are for sure separate. For a Lubavitcher kid to go to a day school when there is a separate school in the area is, well, without knowing any details, really strange. But often shluchim's kids go to the school for as long as they are that age, or until their parents see fit to send them away. And frum kids in a dayschool make a HUGE influence on all the other kids.
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Unread 08-12-2003, 09:20 AM   #109
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I have a funny feeling that it was in new england<G>
So given it has been around a long time....

How many shidduchim came from within it? how many times was there a problem? yearly? decadely ?
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Unread 08-12-2003, 09:23 AM   #110
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And since the schools stayed open, and more were built, is it safe to assume.....
absolutely not
anybody know of any Igros from the Rebbe on the subject of co-ed schools?
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Unread 08-12-2003, 09:43 AM   #111
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The second issue is the Shliach's kids going to the co-ed school. Most co-ed schools are split for Hebrew once the kids are in sixth grade, and if they have high schools they are for sure separate. For a Lubavitcher kid to go to a day school when there is a separate school in the area is, well, without knowing any details, really strange. But often shluchim's kids go to the school for as long as they are that age, or until their parents see fit to send them away. And frum kids in a dayschool make a HUGE influence on all the other kids.
....and the Anash kids that go to such schools are none the worse for it, in my experience.

Obviously it is ideal to have separate boys and girls schools, but "out of town" it is just not always practical. The Rebbe did send a letter to the participants of one of the annual benefit dinners of the Lubavitch-run day school in my town, which is of the type described above by Shlucha.
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Unread 08-13-2003, 04:01 PM   #112
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<<....and the Anash kids that go to such schools are none the worse for it, in my experience. >>

eh, you've never seen a kid get "fried" from a day school? Must be a really frum day school where you are, then.
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Unread 08-14-2003, 01:27 PM   #113
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I've seen both extremes.

Some children benefit from the experience of being the Shliach and role model of their class and feel a greater pride and responsibility.

Other children regard their classmates as peers in Yiddishkeit, and ultimately lose out.

It is hard for a parent to measure the pros and cons of sending a child away vs. keeping them in the situation.
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Unread 08-19-2003, 03:28 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vayaaminu
...and the Anash kids that go to such schools are none the worse for it, in my experience.
In YOUR experience - operative phrase.

I happen to be from a family of Anash, and I was sent to a co-ed MO school where I abandoned Yiddishkeit for several years r"l. And that's "normal" in that environment.

By a pure miracle I returned. But only someone totally irresponsible and callous would rely on miracles when so much is at stake. Koshe misa ruchnis mi'misa gashmis.
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Unread 08-20-2003, 04:37 PM   #115
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I don't have much experience in how Anash kids fare in different schools across the country (and world). And, as I mentioned above, obviously it is ideal to have separate boys and girls schools. And I wouldn't send my kids to a Modern Orthodox-run day school.

But, my experience as a parent tells me that sending a kid to a co-ed school is not necessarily a calamity. Maybe my situaltion is not common, but it is what it is. In my town, the school is run by Lubavitch shluchim, and because of economics it is co-ed in limudei kodesh until about 4-5 grade. Maybe its the quality of the teachers, who knows? All I can say is that the Anash kids have survived the expcerience very well, boruch Hashem, though of course there are the few "exceptions".

But, aren't there kids frieing out everywhere, R"L, even in the separate boys and girls schools in the big cities? You'll answer me, yes, kids are frieing out everywhere, R"L, but why not give your kids all the advantages you can and therefore not send to a co-ed school? And I will answer you, again, that I agree that it is ideal to have separate boys and girls schools.
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Unread 08-20-2003, 05:13 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vayaaminu

But, aren't there kids frieing out everywhere, R"L, even in the separate boys and girls schools in the big cities?
The answer to ALL criticism against any school menahal, head shaliach, etc. So profound, so clever....and such a lie.
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Unread 08-20-2003, 05:29 PM   #117
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And I wouldn't send my kids to a Modern Orthodox-run day school .... In my town, the school is run by Lubavitch shluchim, and because of economics it is co-ed ...
so you're saying that a co-ed school run by Lubavitchers is far different than a co-ed M.O. school? I'm sure it is. The school's goals and hashkafas are completely different. No comparison. Gotta compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

In addition to which, the Lub. co-ed school you're talking about is only co-ed until 4-5th grade, as opposed to upper elementary and high school. Do Lub. co-ed schools go co-ed any higher in other locations?
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Unread 08-21-2003, 01:30 AM   #118
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All I can say is that the Anash kids have survived the expcerience very well, boruch Hashem, though of course there are the few "exceptions".
Don't be so quick to declare that the detriment was minimal. You only know what you see on the surface - you don't see the tremendous long-term damage wrought by these "schools."

I'd rephrase your statement. I think it should read: "well, by some miracle they seem to have survived, and have even developed into proper Chassidishe bochrim/maidlach."

But "ain somchin al ha'nes."

Quote:
I agree that it is ideal to have separate boys and girls schools.
You're a real idealist, Vayaaminu!

You seem to consider the status quo acceptable, and don't see any need to clamor for change, saying co-ed "isn't so terrible," so much so that you are willing to offer up your own children as guinea pigs. nu nu

Quote:
Do Lub. co-ed schools go co-ed any higher in other locations?
In Sydney they continue till the end of sixth grade. But the future of that school remains to be seen.
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Unread 08-21-2003, 02:18 PM   #119
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The co-ed school that I went to was co-ed all the way till eighth grade, though they did un-co-ed it for Limudei Kodesh for one year.

And I agree with Vayaminu, in Lubavitch co-ed schools (at least the one I went to) the Lubavitch kids did not (for the most part) come out bad. They went to yeshivas and girls high schools and were often on the top of their class, academically and chassidishly. I also see that Lubavitch kids who went to co-ed schools usually do not get involved with the opposite gender once their are in a separate school. I don't know if this is just a conincidence (probably not) or it has to do with the fact that they were in a co-ed school.
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Unread 08-21-2003, 02:43 PM   #120
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Thanks for the support.
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Unread 08-21-2003, 08:05 PM   #121
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In numerous letters, the Rebbe opposed co-ed schools even for very young ages, saying it is severely detrimental. The Rebbe did not say "if there are Lubavitchers teaching there, then it's okay."

In fact, in one letter the Rebbe advises a Lubavitcher AGAINST teaching in such a school (run by non-Lubavitchers), because the very act of teaching there constitutes a statement of endorsement of co-education - when co-education is forbidden by Halacha. This letter is printed in Likutei Sichos, vol. 22, I believe.

The apologetics indulged in above is preventing the desperately-needed reformation of these schools - through segregation, and that is most unfortunate.
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Unread 08-30-2003, 05:05 AM   #122
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HI again,

When i started this topic a year and a half ago i was at a co-ed school, and as the topic went on (around page three) my parents agreed and i went to a chabad all boys school.

But after a year a bit now at this school I just want to point out a few things that i have noticed with the schools, myself and the contextual change;

1. The maturity level in my new school is abysimally lower in most ways. Many of the students have no skills in dealing with fri and non-jews, so much so that i feel a lot of the secular teaches might on occasion get turned off from the statements said in class, especially regarding the religions of the secular teachers. The students are much more wilder.

2. I have dropped in my yiddishkeit level since i came to the school, not in the quantity of what i do in yiddishkeit, but rather in quality. In the co-ed school, i was on a different plane to the rest of the students, yet in the all boys, Chabad school, I'm not on a different plane and i can get persuaded much easier to fall to the standards of others around me.

3. When the students do interact with the oppsosite gender, there are two general reactions, one is that they act in such a way that it offends the other person, and two they act in such a way where the girl wouldn't believe they were Frum bechlal.

4. I definately feel that i am disadvanatged in state secular tests becuase of the general attitude of the students in the school that in turn effects the teachers teaching methods.

So sometimes I wonder, if i stayed at the co-ed school i would have in time come out gone to a yeshiva for a year and might have turned out to be a bettter yid, I would have avoided many arguements with my teacher and i would have been able to mekarev a lot of my friends at the co-ed school and i would have performed better secular wise?

Is it always the case that going away from a co-ed school is the right thing to do?
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Unread 08-30-2003, 11:44 PM   #123
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Unfortunately, Ephy, yours is not the only case. It happens very often, that someone moving up in Yiddishkeit leaves their private or public school to go to a frum school, and end up either lowering their level or leaving Yiddishkeit altogether. However, sometimes it works the other way, so there's no way to cyberjudge that one.

You might need to think about choosing an out of town school with a higher level of secular ed and respect instilled in the students. Hope you have someone good to talk to in town about this decision, leaving the school etc.

I would like to say, if you do decide to stay in the school you are now: Create a group of friends like you who: A) are polite, B) respect you, C) will reinforce your growth in Yiddishkeit. Stay away from everyone else for a while. And possibly have tutoring done to make up for the decrease in the level of secular studies.

I have more thoughts on this, but I'd wait to hear what you have to say or want to try.
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Unread 08-31-2003, 02:49 AM   #124
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Well, that is only the beginning of the problem which i have described.

To expand.

The school I attend at the moment is in big trouble (I think you know the exotic location i'm talking about), we have moved three premises in the last three weeks, and to top it off my Maths teacher decided to leave on Friday.

Then you have my parents, my Mother who is worrying and askng me non-stop to go to this tutor and this tutor, and asking me to discuss options of going to other schools (including the one i originally cam from), my Father thinks i should wait it out and see if the school does ok for a while and stick it out.

Then you have the halachic questions about going to a co-ed school, even if it is Jewish, and if I go to an all boys school, i will be missing out on a lot Yiddishkeit and by the time I get out and into Yeshiva i will be miles behind everyone else.

So right now, I guess im sticking it out, becoming more stressed/confused/(depressed), so i would like to hear your other thoughts.
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Unread 08-31-2003, 08:35 AM   #125
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according to a previous post, you're 17 - an age when boys commonly go away to yeshiva
are you willing and able (parents?) to go away from home to a better school?
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