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Unread 08-15-2002, 09:02 PM   #76
shlucha100
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chachchach - someone /a mashpia doesnt need to know everysingle detail of every single thing that ever happened to you and everything that you think about each day and everything that happened to you before you started speaking to her in order to advise you and help you to grow
when a person is a mashpia they have kochos of the Rebbe to guide you (see mashpia sichos) and its more than just their understanding and knowledge of you
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Unread 08-15-2002, 09:07 PM   #77
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hishtatchus , - when boys refer to their mashpiim they may be reffering to the mashpia of their yeshiva who farbrengs and talks with them as students of that specific Yeshiva.....
it's not an issue of "does it need to be private" rather it's depends on the preference and personality of each girl
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Unread 08-15-2002, 09:14 PM   #78
shlucha100
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the Rebbe never said anything about specific ages , only that men women and children should have a mashpia and I think it is wrong to start adding in or making up rules
the only thing we know forsure is exactly what the Rebbe said (as with all other issues)
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Unread 08-17-2002, 09:53 PM   #79
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BS"D I am not interested in people knowing my mashpia's identity and I am male.
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Unread 08-17-2002, 10:01 PM   #80
ChachChach
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Quote:
Originally posted by shlucha100
chachchach - someone /a mashpia doesnt need to know everysingle detail of every single thing that ever happened to you and everything that you think about each day and everything that happened to you before you started speaking to her in order to advise you and help you to grow
when a person is a mashpia they have kochos of the Rebbe to guide you (see mashpia sichos) and its more than just their understanding and knowledge of you

Naturally, I wouldnt imagine that you have to submit an autobiography before getting one, but you have to admit-there are some private parts of your life that a mashpia has to know of, before they can help you...

And (surprise!) it is HARD to find someone trustworthy-I'm not saying its impossible, I'm just saying its very hard.
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Unread 08-17-2002, 10:21 PM   #81
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BS"D I AGREE 100%:

1) It IS necessary to confide very personal information, for otherwise the mashpia will just give "standard" advice which may not necessarily be appropriate. (And anyway, for that, who needs a person - I can read it in a book!) and

2) it is VERY hard to find someone trustworthy, in whom one feels really confident and with whom one feels comfortable.
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Unread 08-17-2002, 11:00 PM   #82
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yeah but i guess i was justy lucky, u can tell them everydetail of your life but what if they know ur fam u cant say evrything bout ur fam. u srtill have to be careful
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Unread 08-17-2002, 11:06 PM   #83
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BS"D Do you mean because it is loshon horo? If it is said specifically to help you solve your personal problems, it has a to'eles (benefit) and it is not considered loshon horo.

It comes down to the fact that if this person is truly trustworthy then even if he does know the family it will not matter.
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Unread 08-18-2002, 02:43 PM   #84
hishtatchus
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Even not Lashon Hara- it's like breaching your parents' trust.
Are you allowed to lie to your Mashpia for the sake of Shalom?
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Unread 08-19-2002, 02:55 AM   #85
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i would'nt think of ling but they are my family and some things you just dont say especially if alot of people look up to certain members of ur family. and some things are famioly secrets
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Unread 10-01-2002, 08:44 PM   #86
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zaque- i just read your post for the first time now and i dont knwo exzactly what a mashpia is but im taking it that its a preson you talk to about things you need to talk about?? well yea if thats what it is i need one to but i cant talk to someone higher authority then me i need someone closer in age like my age or 2 years older to help me but the thing is they arent old "enough" i just talk to them and they make me feel better ... and like u said about being embarssed i agree!!
so what did you do?
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Unread 10-03-2002, 04:56 PM   #87
noahidelaws
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Quote:
Originally posted by unowho
i would'nt think of ling but they are my family and some things you just dont say especially if alot of people look up to certain members of ur family. and some things are famioly secrets
BS"D I hear you loud and clear... Otoh, the mashpia has to know a certain amount in order to guide you. So one has to think for oneself and consider carefully - does the possible benefit of receiving the advice outweigh the dangers of revealing private info?

Also, perhaps there is a difference between things you need to talk about just to "get off your chest" and have moral support, where privacy would take precedence,
or if you are in a situation where you have some kind of pressing moral dilemma, and without advice one can foresee disastrous consequences, then the need for privacy would have to be sacrificed.
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Unread 10-12-2002, 11:05 PM   #88
Shlucha
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I just recently learned the sicha where the Rebbe first tells us to get a mashpia, and the person I was learning with explained that your mashpia a) as other people mentioned, does not have to be PERFECT, it is not binding, they just have to have more yiras hashem than you, and b) a mashpia is not neccessarily the person you have to go to with all your problems, a mashpia is there to help you become better in yiras hashem and bittul. A mashpia will help you make hachlatos and check up on you occassionaly to make sure you are keeping the hachlatos. You can have another person, a friend, a relative, etc. who you can go to with your "problems" or to talk things over ("inconsequetional" things-although they don't seem inconsequential to you-like... if you have a problem with a friend, or whatever)
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Unread 10-29-2002, 12:32 PM   #89
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BS"D Interesting, perhaps you could post the exact source of that sicha?
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Unread 10-31-2002, 08:15 PM   #90
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Shlucha- I don't like to disagree with your source- you obviously respect whoever defined "Mashpia" for you, but I have heard MANY definitions as to the job of a Mashpia- and all from respectable sources. Here's a couple:

- A Mashpia is someone to whom you submit a Cheshbon Nefesh to weekly/monthly and discuss the results with.

- A Mashpia is someone who guides you in Chassidishkeit and Hashkafa matters.

- A Mashpia is someone who you discuss any issues that come up- related to physical, emotional or spiritual well-being.

There's definitely more theories on the matter, but I don't think there is ONE right way.
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Unread 11-09-2002, 11:09 PM   #91
Shlucha
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maybe I did not make it clear, but what I was saying was basically your first two points
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Unread 11-09-2002, 11:13 PM   #92
Shlucha
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noah, the sicha was in parshas shoftim, I"m not sure which chelek. But it wasn't the sicha that said that so clealy, it was the person who explained it.
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Unread 11-10-2002, 12:48 AM   #93
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Shlucha-

I'm not negating the answer you were given, I'm only pointing out that it is not a De'oraisa, universally accepted, precise definition for the purpose of a Mashpia.

I'm only saying this because at one point, when I felt I had a great relationship with my Mashpia, someone told me that I was relating to my Mashpia wrong- I was supposed to only read her my Cheshbon Hanefesh. That threw me off for a while!

Basically, my point is that there is no right or wrong way to relate to your Mashpia. If it is accomplishing its goals, then you are having the type of Kesher that is right for you.
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Unread 11-10-2002, 01:23 AM   #94
Shlucha
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ok, now to justify myself....

I only brought this up because
a) I hadn't known that (that is ONE OPNINON of the tafkid of a mashpia)

b) it seems like other people on this forum also didn't know that
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Unread 11-10-2002, 01:37 AM   #95
hishtatchus
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No need to justify yourself, I wasn't attacking you

I only said something cuz I figured people (like me for many years) were never told that a Mashpia doesn't have a cut-and-dried definition.

Disclaimer: If what I just said makes no sense, remember, it's late by me. Feel free to correct me- but don't expect any logical rebuttals till I get some sleep!
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Unread 11-10-2002, 01:53 AM   #96
Shlucha
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Only because you offered

<<Mashpia doesn't have a cut-and-dried definition.>>
Are we so sure of that? Maybe the Rebbe told us exactly what a mashpia should be and we are just not listening...? In that sicha that I quoted (I'll tell you exactly which chelek it's in eventually) the Rebbe says the mashpia "asei lcha rav" to help in matters of bittul and yiras shamayim. Now how does the problems with the friends fall into bittul and yiras shamayim??
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Unread 11-13-2002, 06:15 PM   #97
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Quote:
Now how does the problems with the friends fall into bittul and yiras shamayim??
BS"D HASHEM tells us to have ahavas Yisrael.
I.e. "bein adam la'chavero" is really "bein adam laMakom", so social relations certainly IS related to yiras shomayim.
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Unread 11-25-2002, 04:59 PM   #98
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true the rebbe did tell us the purpose of a mashpia - to help us in our yiras shamayim and bittul - but that still is not an exact definition of exactly what to do, and the way i've always understood it is that everyone works it in a different way, some people need to speak to their mashpia once a week, some once a month, some once a day, and for some learning once a week works great to. for everyone it works different, depending on their relationship with their mashpia, and no two relationships are the same, and no two people are the same. As long as the purpose is being fulfilled and your mashpia is helping you get to where you're supposed to, then you're doing the right thing.
a thought to bear in mind that someone once told me thats very true - there are three different roles - mashpia, friend and psychiatrist, a mashpia is not a friend or a psychiatrist and the same with the rest, keeping that in mind can help you decide what should be directed to your mashpia.
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Unread 11-25-2002, 06:18 PM   #99
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what if I have a friend who is a psychiatrist, who would make a terrific mashpia?
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Unread 11-25-2002, 06:24 PM   #100
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Not according to what you wrote before:

Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
"books on psychology" - does he provide a reading list?

I find it exceedingly strange that a rosh yeshiva would require this. There are contradictory ideas, outright wrong ideas, ideas that go directly against Torah and Chassidus - all in psychology books! I agree that there are also many helpful ideas there too, but how are they expected to pick them out of the garbage?

I would think it far better if the rosh yeshiva sat down with someone knowledgeable who could recommend suitable material, and that THEN he should go over this material with a mashpia who is himself not mushpa or even knowledegable in psychology, so that the mashpia can objectively assess the truth of the material.

Too many kids (and adults) have been messed up or not helped by psychologists and therapists, even frum ones.
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