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Unread 06-17-2002, 07:14 PM   #51
ChachChach
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Ummm...wish her mazal tov, go to the wedding, and start looking for another one?

Mazal tov, btw.
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Unread 06-17-2002, 07:35 PM   #52
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Ah, Chamudit, what a problem--one that I'm sure lots of other people sympathize with and have gone through themselves. I know what you're feeling. It's probably bittersweet emotions--on one hand you're thrilled for her, on the other you're probably wondering something like, UH OH, where to now? Is she going to disappear on me??

I wouldn't automatically give up on her--hold on a little bit and see how it goes. If you feel that she is still fulfilling her role for you, then there's no reason to get someone new. Give her a chance, though--i.e. give her some time. It's possible that things will just never be the same--it's obviously very different for a single girl to be totally devoted to you and for a newlywed to be. OTOH, there are benefits to sticking with the same person--she knows you, you're comfortable with her, you've finally found the perfect one! (sounds like a shidduch, huh?) Who wants to start looking for someone new, especially when it isn't exactly the simplest thing to find, right?

BUT if it starts becoming a mashpia in name only, then I'm afraid that it's time to start looking for a new mashpia. But REMEMBER that all single girls will eventually marry (hopefully), so keep in mind that you may have to endure the same ordeal again. -

Unless you go with an older, married woman (not a newlywed). If you feel comfortable with that, and ready for that, then that is totally a great idea. Of course, she too will obviously have major life responsibilities to attend to, but it isn't the same as a freshly married mashpia.

Most of all, hang in there and don't go without an (active) mashpia! The best of luck!
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Unread 06-18-2002, 12:07 AM   #53
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If she really understands you and helps you, and she can see eye-to-eye with you, i don't think her upcoming marriage will change your relationship so much. On the contrary, i think it could add much depth. you'll probably have to wait until after the wedding to spend time properly with her though, cuz some girls tend to float on clouds for some time-and rightly so. Hatzlacha raba....be open and honest, and let her know about your reluctance and fears. and please don't get shy-she isn't that different from you, no matter what she's going through. share her simcha-and take it from there.
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Unread 06-18-2002, 02:31 AM   #54
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Honestly, I don't have a Mashpia because I don't trust anyone. To deal with inner core problems of spirituality one needs to completely undress themselves to their Mashpia and I feel that almost everyone in the world shares their secrets with someone close to them and that's all it takes for the cat to come out of the closet. Hey, I know I sound paranoid, but how do you really get to trust someone that much? or perhaps you just take that chance.
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Unread 06-18-2002, 11:36 AM   #55
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Yes, I TOTALLY understand what you're saying.

The fact is that you just can't go through your whole life not trusting anyone...it's imperative in so many relationships--what do you plan to do when you get married? If you go through your life until then not trusting a soul, it isn't going to be too easy to suddenly find it easy to expose your thoughts and feelings.
So yes, you do need to take that chance. There's no better time to begin trusting people than now.

Think of it in that you're doing this for the Rebbe, if not for yourself--you're doing it to fulfill a heartfelt bakasha for the Rebbe, a bakasha nafshis! The words sound almost meaningless by now, as it's repeated so many times--but think about it: how many things did the Rebbe ask you PERSONALLY to do? How can we not fulfill this one request? Leave the rest of it on the Rebbe's wide shoulders --if you're doing what he's asked and you choose the proper person, try trusting in the Rebbe to take care of the rest. You just find a person that you think is trustworthy (there must be someone who's relatively trustworthy, at least).

Sure it's hard, sure it feels frightening exposing your feelings and to "undress" yourself, especially at first. But it's worth it. You've gotta take some risks in life if you want to get anywhere...as we all know. Play it safe, and that'll get you nowhere.
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Unread 06-18-2002, 06:36 PM   #56
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Jac, Thanks for your encouraging words. The truth is, is that the urge to speak Loshon Hara is so strong these days. Wherever you go you hear people gossiping.

Last edited by RavLub; 06-18-2002 at 11:49 PM.
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Unread 06-18-2002, 07:08 PM   #57
ChachChach
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Shliachwannabe, I know EXACTLY what you mean.

Every time I turn around, someone else is telling me something private that someone else told THEM!

If people are telling me this, what's stopping them from telling it to others?

And I had that experience. I once told someone something, and eventually, it got back to me (they told someone else, who asked someone something, and that person realized what was going on, and asked another person to pass along a warning to me... not a funny situation)

But the thing is, the advantage of a mashpia really does outweigh the risks. I'm so serious. I know you're thinking that after all that pessism, nothing is worth it.

But it is. Bc sometimes, you really need someone on the outside to give you some advice. You need someone to give you that little push. As scary as it is to trust people, its even more scary to feel as though you're floundering about, alone.

Why dont you start out small? Dont unburden all of your deep dark secrets at once...See if the person really is worthy of your trust.

You know, you can always discuss this worry with your mashpia
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Unread 06-18-2002, 08:03 PM   #58
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BH

A Mashpia should be someone you look up to (not necessarily someone over the age of 85), he/she should also be a friend (not necessarily "buddies"), someone that cares, will look out for you, and understands you.

Obviously one doesn't want (or need) some old (or any) person with a mouth the size of Texas. This may (probably will) have a more detrimental effect on the person... Look around and find a Mashpia suited for you.

By the way, if you feel that the Mashpia is no good for you, tell her/him so. There’s absolutely no reason someone has to suffer just because a Mashpia’s ego will be dented or the like. Be honest, you need it.
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Unread 06-19-2002, 12:07 AM   #59
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Shliach,

I think we all can sympathize with the sentiments and concerns you have expressed (I am a very private person, especially about inner emotional/spiritual issues), and at the same time, we all believe that the Rebbe knows good and well the spiritual state of the generation. And if the Rebbe says that this is what OUR GENERATION needs, than it is DAVKA because of the problems that you have observed that we need this spiritual remedy.

I am regularly entrusted with people's most personal and private issues, and they know that all information ends with me. Period. I find it hard to believe that there is nobody else out there, and can actually think of a few that I would trust.

I can only join in the hope and prayer that you find the right shliach from the Aibishter soon.
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Unread 06-21-2002, 03:51 PM   #60
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If It Can Happen To Bilaam, It Can Happen to Any of Us


In Parshas Balak we find an incident which if we merely stop to think about, it will teach us a tremendous ethical lesson. For me personally, it is one of the scariest mussar teachings that I find in the Torah.

This incident is with a person named Bilaam, who had a tremendous power of speech. Whoever he blessed was blessed; whoever he cursed was cursed. He was a very powerful man -- a person who did not command divisions of armies; but he had an almost magical power of speech.

He is asked to employ this power against the Jews. He knows that G-d does not want him to go, but he decides to go nevertheless. While on the way, what happens to him? His donkey stops, refuses to move, then all of a sudden the donkey opens up his mouth and starts talking to him. Since the history of the world began such a thing never happened -- and never again will happen -- that a donkey should talk to a man.

If one would have any doubts whether what he was doing was right or wrong and all of a sudden while driving along, his car would stop and tell him "Don't go" (and not just one of those recorded voices saying "Your seatbelt isn't buckled...") -- would that not cause the person to at least stopand wonder whether he was doing the right thing?

We may ask this question even about a person who was not perceptive. But Bilaam was a wise person; he was a perceptive person. How would a perceptive person view his donkey talking to him?

He should have said to himself, "My strength is my speech. Who gave me that power? G-d. The proof is that the same G-d who gave me the power of speech, just gave my donkey the power of speech! "Who gives a mouth to man or Who makes one dumb..." [Shmos 4:11] Where is my strength from? There is no bigger miracle of me talking than my donkey talking. It's the same strength of G-d."

What should Bilaam have concluded? That he was not using his power of speech correctly, and he should turn back. Isn't this as clear as day?Isn't the message clear? Shouldn't that make an impression? And yet it didn't.

This is the lesson to be learned -- how blind a person can be! When a person has some type of personal motive -- whether it be money or power or whatever it is -- a person can literally be completely blind. G-d can almost spell it out to him... G-d CAN spell it out to him, but he won't seeit!

That is what is so frightening. It can be as clear as day to the objective observer, but the person on his way to sin can not see what is in front of his own eyes! This is terribly frightening, because if it can happen to Bilaam, it can happen to every one of us! If Bilaam can be blinded, we can be blinded.

This is the tremendous mussar to be derived from the incident of Bilaam: There are none so blind, as those who will not see.

by R' Frand

the "objective person" can be our mashpia
perhaps this is why the Rebbe urged us, with a bakasha nafshis, to asei lecha rav ...
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Unread 06-25-2002, 10:56 AM   #61
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Coaching

back to the thread topic:
there's a relatively new concept out there called coaching, which strikes me as the world's "take" on the mashpia idea. In fact, the reason why it has taken off in the secular world is, no doubt, because the Rebbe proposed the idea of having a mashpia ...

The idea of a sports coach has been around for a long time, but this new coaching concept is about a client hiring a coach to help him achieve personal goals in life. In an initial meeting, the person delineates where they are in life and where they want to be, identifiying goals and habits that will help them get there.

Three keys to successful coaching are: 1) Honesty - being honest with one's coach about whether you completed an assignment and tried something you were challenged to do. Without honesty you sabotage your chances of success
2) letting your coach be honest with you - allowing them to tell you when you're moving away from your goals
3) being willing to work at change - it has to be important to you, because otherwise what's the point?

after the initial meeting, coaching sessions usually take place over the phone for 30 min. a week.
the coach's role is to keep the client focused on their goals and how to achieve them

the Rebbe says that if you don't charge for something, people don't value it
maybe if people paid their mashpia, as clients pay their coaches, they'd take it all much more seriously
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Unread 07-12-2002, 02:10 PM   #62
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BS"D From a post elsewhere relevant here:

<<All I am saying (which is what the Rebbe says in the sources quoted above) is that the parents are very biased in their decision, and therefore cannot be relied upon, perhaps like a witness who is a relative cannot testify in Bais Din.

Whereas a Mashpia is

a) more learned and in tune with Hashem’s Rotsoin as he devotes his life to learning and communal work rather than pursuing a living, so his da’as is “da’as Torah” and

b) he is not personally involved and therefore can be unbiased, objective.

Btw I think that the parents or other authority figures e.g. the principal or Rosh Yeshiva must not have any contact with the Mashpia, for otherwise

a) there can be no trust and confidentiality, as RavLub points out in the Youth at Risk thread and

b) the mashpia’s decisions will be affected, because he may not want to spoil his relationship with the parents by giving advice that they find objectionable. >>
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Unread 07-12-2002, 02:22 PM   #63
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BS"D <<maybe if people paid their mashpia, as clients pay their coaches, they'd take it all much more seriously>>

Indeed. Though the payment need not be monetary - it could also be in the form of a favour or services rendered.

I think that if the one seeking advice would be undergoing any financial difficulties, this course should be followed, for otherwise the knowledge of the expense incurred might restrict the amount of consultation, preventing the person from receiving needed advice.

In any case, IMHO it could be said in general that the risk of not receiving the advice in the first place would seem to outweigh the risk of not valuing the advice sufficiently. So the mashpia, in the interests of the mushpa, would have to assess the would-be mushpa's financial state (and if the mushpa possesses the trait of stinginess...) before asking for payment.

Perhaps a token amount per year might suffice for the mushpa to value the advice. If so, it would seem that more need (should?) not be charged.

Last edited by noahidelaws; 07-12-2002 at 03:31 PM.
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Unread 07-12-2002, 03:38 PM   #64
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BS"D Question: does anyone think that utilising modern technology to consult a Mashpia via e-mail might be significantly less (or perhaps even more?) effective than consulting a Mashpia in real life, and detract from the accuracy of the advice given?

(This is assuming that the one seeking advice is really sincere about receiving advice it and is therefore making a conscious effort to be completely open about the issues at hand.)

Last edited by noahidelaws; 07-12-2002 at 03:42 PM.
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Unread 07-12-2002, 03:44 PM   #65
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BS"D Jude writes elsewhere:

<< and only consult with parents who ... are (apparently) successful in raising their children>>

Would you say the same about mashpi’im? I know of several respected mashpi’im who have children who sadly turned out less than perfect.

You seem to ASSUME that faults in children are caused by significant faults in the parents. Is this fair?
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Unread 07-12-2002, 04:04 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by noahidelaws
BS"D Question: does anyone think that utilising modern technology to consult a Mashpia via e-mail might be significantly less (or perhaps even more?) effective than consulting a Mashpia in real life, and detract from the accuracy of the advice given?

(This is assuming that the one seeking advice is really sincere about receiving advice it and is therefore making a conscious effort to be completely open about the issues at hand.)
A completely anonymous private system would definitely allow people to be more open. OTOH, people are likely to misuse the system etc. so there would have to be a charge, but payment by Credit Card would reveal the name...
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Unread 07-12-2002, 04:22 PM   #67
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BS"D <<people are likely to misuse the system etc. so there would have to be a charge>>

Sorry, I don't follow your reasoning. Why and how would they abuse the system?

And why would charging prevent such abuse?

And when did I imply that the consultation I was discussing was anonymous? I merely raised the issue of consulting a mashpia via correspondence as opposed to in real life.
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Unread 07-14-2002, 10:33 AM   #68
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It would be very difficult for a mashpia to give personal advice over the internet if he/she does not know the person well.

Advice must be tailored to the individual at the level they are presently at, anonymous advise could only be general and might not be in the individuals best inerest.
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Unread 07-14-2002, 05:59 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by noahidelaws
BS"D Question: does anyone think that utilising modern technology to consult a Mashpia via e-mail might be significantly less (or perhaps even more?) effective than consulting a Mashpia in real life, and detract from the accuracy of the advice given?

(This is assuming that the one seeking advice is really sincere about receiving advice it and is therefore making a conscious effort to be completely open about the issues at hand.)
I think this is a really good thing. Several people have told me that they were too embarrassed to ask someone in person to be their mashpia, so they asked them through a letter. If you corresponded through email, and the mashpia really knew you well, I think it would be a great thing. It is often much easier to say private things not face to face. On the other hand, my mashpia lives far away from me, and the only way I can contact her is through letters. It takes a while, and by the time I get the answer, the problem (usually) does not exist anymore, or was already resolved.
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Unread 07-15-2002, 10:16 PM   #70
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<<On the other hand, my mashpia lives far away from me, and the only way I can contact her is through letters. It takes a while, and by the time I get the answer, the problem (usually) does not exist anymore, or was already resolved.>>

I guess everyone has what works for them, huh?
How helpful is it if the problems are already gone/resolved by the time you get an answer? (not the the problems should still exist ch'v!)
Also, how well does a mashpia get to know a person just through letter coresspondance?
Like I said, everyone's diff. and different things work for different people . . .
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Unread 07-16-2002, 06:48 PM   #71
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Part of this discusssion has been moved to "Finding a Mashpia while climbing through the web of issues (teenagers) " in the Controversy section.
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Unread 07-17-2002, 02:14 PM   #72
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BS"D could the mod PLEASE move the irrelevant (to this thread, anyway) posts about non-chabad sources elsewhere?
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Unread 07-22-2002, 12:12 AM   #73
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Question...If someone comes to the conclusion that the person who is their current mashpia is not right for them, or they need a new one for some other reason, should they tell their old mashpia? I mean, lets say your mashpia is moving to Australia while you live in New York. It might be inconvinient if they are so far away. Should you tell them that you are going to get a new one? I mean, are you under any 'obligation' to, like is it not fair if you don't? Or can you just stop asking them?
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Unread 08-12-2002, 11:28 PM   #74
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BS"D Since the mashpia/mekabel relationship is a very close one, and also one which places a certain demand on the mashpia, it would seem to be the decent, proper thing to do to make the nature of the relationship clearly defined.

I.e. a mashpia should be formally asked to assume that role, and for the same reason, if it is necessary for whatever reason, to stop.
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Unread 08-15-2002, 03:41 PM   #75
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Question:
Why do girls seem so embarrassed and private about their Mashpias? Boys don't seem (in my opinion) to mind others being aware of who their Mashpia is.
Which is better? Is a Mashpia supposed to be more private, or should it become open?
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