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Unread 10-06-2002, 09:47 AM   #26
awertvbh1
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i see whta u r talking about and i agree totally about the boys not taking it as "just being friends" but... whne u r really close family friends... and the have a boy and u r friends with them and its just not possible to be morethan friends its like u r too close to be more than friends that type.... why is it wrong??
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Unread 10-06-2002, 10:54 AM   #27
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<<its just not possible to be more than friends>>

no such thing
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Unread 10-06-2002, 02:04 PM   #28
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Thank you Jude for your insight. I also heard that lecture on "platonic relationships". I am assuming it is the famous one. It is very popullar amongst the Ohr Sameach boys in Yerushalayim who I have worked with.

In addition, I understand that families who are close fo many years and the children grow up together, they feel like brother and sister. It is not so, G-d made us in a very unique fashion. ONe that only G-d can do. Part of this is that we are not able to be just friends between genders.

Rabbi Manis Friedman tells a story about a shabbaton he once made in Minnesota for college students. He explained that the first week they had the girls and the next week the boys.

The students questioned why they had to be seperated, "we are all friends. We know each other very well. We dont feel that this prohibition applies to our circumstance," they explained.

Well, Shabbos was full of excitment. The boys had a grand time. Shalosh Suedos went well into the night after Shabbos was over. The boys were oblivious of the time. They were sitting around the table singing Jewish songs, laughing, and just having fun. Suddenly the girls walked in to pick up the boys. WIthin a split seconed it was all over.

Rabbi Friedman paused and then looked at the boys and said, "I thought that you were very close friends. You should have no problem continueing......"
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Unread 10-06-2002, 02:23 PM   #29
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Manis Friedman also tells about the camping trip some kids were going to take, boys and girls. They would be sleeping over, even sharing sleeping bags, but they reassured him that they were just friends, and it was really nothing. M.F.'s response: if it's really "nothing" then you FIRST have a problem! (in other words, it's not NORMAL for that to be nothing).
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Unread 10-06-2002, 04:27 PM   #30
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ok wtvr... thanx
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Unread 10-06-2002, 04:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by awertvbh1
ok wtvr... thanx

Thats all you have to say? You didn't realize what you were getting yourself into putting a post of this nature here.

Any other questions you have I would be delighted if you ran them by me.
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Unread 10-06-2002, 05:00 PM   #32
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yea thats all i have to say theres alot for me to think about so that was my response
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Unread 10-06-2002, 05:09 PM   #33
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When you are finished thinking we are here.
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Unread 10-06-2002, 09:33 PM   #34
awertvbh1
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i wont finish thinking... but thanx
it just seems lie everyone is agenst me on this one ... wtvr
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Unread 10-06-2002, 09:50 PM   #35
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interesting.
I thought you were asking a question and wanted input for people older and more experienced.

But apparently you are saying that you already had a point of view and that those who responded are "against you"!

Oy.
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Unread 10-06-2002, 09:53 PM   #36
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n on no no no no not at all!!!!!
i wanted their point of u to see what wrong just i thought maybe someone was as stupid as me and had same thoughts
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Unread 10-06-2002, 10:32 PM   #37
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No one is against you. You asked a question. Either you got the answer that you didn't want or it was a little shocking to you. But I assume you did expect it.

Certainly, no one is against you!
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Unread 10-07-2002, 07:54 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by awertvbh1
ok firstly how does ur son have a kid if hes not married??
thats just wrong even if u did let him do wtvr when he was a teen my god at leats teach him about....
Who says having a child outside of marriage is wrong? Well, the Torah teaches us that this is wrong. But if you are not obediant to Jewish Law, then having children outside marriage, working in bars..,etc. may not be considered wrong. We can not pick which law we will obey and which law we will ignore. Every transgression begins with a word. Although your thoughts may be pure.., whose to say those whom you communicate with will be like wise?
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Unread 10-07-2002, 05:11 PM   #39
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yea i got the answer... now the qestion is weather i wanted the answer or not!!
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Unread 10-07-2002, 05:50 PM   #40
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You are right! There is the good and the potential good, nothing lower!

Everything is ultimately good, not always do we see it, or for that matter, want to see it!
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Unread 10-07-2002, 08:03 PM   #41
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i mean i know that the answeres that i got arte right but i dont want to except it so there for im confusing myself...
but than to everyone who answered !!
oy
ook gn
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Unread 10-07-2002, 08:30 PM   #42
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Awert,

The torah considers a man and a woman in one room alone (even if they are not talking) as a s----L experience. human nature is that men and woman are attracted to each other. i will tell you a story. a conservative rabbi was once mocking the mechitzah concept by saying that he was once in a orthodox shul and the men were looking through the mechitzah to try and see the women. to him, therefore, the mechitzah was not really serving the purpose. i answered him that it is unfortunate that men were looking through the mechitzah at the women but that its a healthy sign. you see, today, every thing is ok so to excite one self one has to go to such extremes................. in the orthodox shul the people still get excited by just looking across the mechitza, in the conservative temple that does not excite the men any longer so they have to do other things .............etc. i told the rabbi that the fact that the men in todays society dont see a hand shake as anything is a sad comentary on today's men. if touching a woman is nothing anymore then we are in trouble. Talking to a teen of the oposite gender should be exciting and if its not then it is a sign that you the person is already corrupted. the sad thing is that most of society does not allow their children to grow up normal. children are corrupted before they even know it. the torah wants us to be normal. talking to the irls for a boy should be exciting and the torah wants that kind of excitement reserved for ones spouse. needless to say the conservative rabbi had something to think about.

Last edited by Leayis; 10-07-2002 at 08:54 PM.
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Unread 10-07-2002, 08:31 PM   #43
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I think with this issue,unfortanatly, most people need to experience it firsthand to really see why its wrong. anyone thats been there im sure will agree with me and anyone that hasnt im not telling u to go and talk to guys just so that youll see why its wrong, you should really try and find answers that satisfy you.
gluck
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Unread 10-07-2002, 08:39 PM   #44
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in other words, if they try it, and they think it's fine, they won't stop, right? So then it's all about how you personally feel about doing mitzvos, rather than accepting that G-d said to do them. That's bad news!
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Unread 10-07-2002, 09:16 PM   #45
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hey guys thanx agian for answering!!
leayis and blub... i agree with you that nless you were there you dont know why its worng and how... and i understand that its not healthy for it to be normal to talk to a guy/girl... because it should be specail for marriage...
just that i know for myself and many other ppl its hard to grasp that concept unless u r in the midst of making the biggest mistake of ur life (thank god i never made that biggst mistake of my life) but what should thoes who did do the msitake do once they relize afterwards that they had done the mistake and now they are in deep truoble and now its not specail...theres no way to make that feeling become "that feeling" again
sorry if im not making any snece but i hope u understand me!!
and guys for who ever is reading this and u didnt talk to a guy/girl dont!! i know so many ppl who really got themslefs into trouble and regret it totaly!! just remmber to think before you act
thanx everyone for helping me relize these things
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Unread 10-07-2002, 09:42 PM   #46
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<<and i understand that its not healthy for it to be normal to talk to a guy/girl>>

uh, I would just edit that line because at first I thought you didn't get it. Then I realized you probably did, but didn't write it exactly right. I mean it should say:

<<and i understand that its not healthy for it to be normal to talk to a guy/girl like there's no tension at all>>

know what I mean?

about what to do after a big mistake is made - the Rebbe would advise people, baalei teshuva, to get out there and talk to people about kashrus etc. because THEY KNOW what it's like to eat cheesburgers, yet they stopped. The same goes for what you're asking. They should work on convincing others not to mess up their lives.
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Unread 10-07-2002, 11:54 PM   #47
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That is a great idea. I have seen some wonderful things come out of teenagers who have had experiences such as the one that I understand you are having. They seem to realte to others in this position and heaven forbid who, as you say, have made big mistakes. They much more easily able to help them overcome their predicament.
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Unread 10-08-2002, 08:11 PM   #48
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hey i know that the only way u can "fi" what u did was to help other ppl not make the same mistake but the only thing is that whenu say o dont so its the stupidst thing in ur life u can do... and u try to say it so that it sounds yuck and bad so that they wouldnt do it but that i find most of the time makes them want to do it more i know that when someone told me talking to guys was the biggst mistek of her life i was like maybe for u but not for me and i went ahead and did it and only after to i see wat a mistake it was and how i regret it like heck (fir the ones that i was too close with) and i mean im happy i went threw it all and im over with and didnt go any where too far but at the same time im like my god i could have been the best girl if i would have listened to her and i know so many ppl that are like me and are not gonna lsiten... what do u do for that kinda case? let them go threw it and watch them mess up??
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Unread 10-08-2002, 08:55 PM   #49
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what do you think would have convinced you at that time? some 14 year old showing you her baby, and her saying she never intended ... blah, blah
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Unread 10-08-2002, 09:33 PM   #50
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i guess wtvr
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