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Unread 10-31-2004, 09:50 PM   #51
A"kshoin
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Re: Semicha Programs

As far as the Maale of Smicha programs I agree that the situation leaves much room for improvement. What helped me most about going to a smicha program (I'm not saying that this a reason people should go there) is that poel mamosh in 9 months of learning 3 chalokim are finished. I know for myself that if I had been in 770 I'd be lucky to have finished 2 chalokim and they would be melicha and basar bechalav. i.e. not even half the chomer.

Another advantage is less distractions, a meishiv who whole purpose is that you should understand what you're learning. Usually this is combined with shlichus as well. (not that you can't have these things in 770 but there is no structure that you have to follow.) Additionally everybody you are with is learning the same thing. Also smicha is the only reason you're there.

With regard to doing smicha in 2 months, I think that's ridicules. Even without talking a minute and being every minute in seder. Unless you're saying that you just have a chavrusa and don't learn anything else chassidus v'chu and you learn on shabbosim and have your own meishiv then you could probably cover everything twice without tur, beis yosef, pri migadim. In the program I was in (i'm not saying that I know the stuff but) bepoel we learnt everything min. 4 times and we had tests on every ten pages (aprox.).

(Ubchol zos shochochnu and I - retroactively - would have rathered go to either S. Africa or Melbourne where I get the impression that the learning is better)

B'protus it obviously depends on the group. (and whether you knew about Chabadtalk while you were there )

But B'chlolus I think it's more a sign that you actually learnt something because you spent time in a place where everyone is doing this and someone is supervising.
In 770 on the other hand a friend told me that someone who came to the basar b'cholov test quickly before it started asked him "what's pshat gdi lav davka"...He failed but the point is that I'm sure people come to the test who have learnt the chomer no more than once. And I'm also sure that some of them pass.
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Unread 11-30-2009, 08:25 AM   #52
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How many pages of Shulchan Aruch does it work out to be?
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Unread 12-01-2009, 11:21 AM   #53
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Smicha? It depends on the print of Shulchan Aruch and which meforshim you cover, plus some programs skip certain chapters. Plus, some programs also cover the Tur and Beis Yosef, which would double the length of material. Adding in Rambam or Gemarrah would again increase the length substantially.

Ballpark with just Shulchan Aruch, Shach and Taz is maybe 150-200 pages in the big Shulchan Aruch. Then Shabbos is however many chapters in the Shulchan Aruch HaRav that the class chooses to cover.
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Unread 12-09-2009, 11:57 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu View Post
.

. Then Shabbos is however many chapters in the Shulchan Aruch HaRav that the class chooses to cover.
Shabbos?
in the olden times,Semicha was Basar vechalav, melicha, taruvos, treifos(or shechita) .osfos( hagalas keilim,hilchos kiriat haTorah)
Shabbos was for dayanus
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Unread 12-09-2009, 03:00 PM   #55
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Looks like your olden days is a lot younger than my olden days...
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Unread 12-09-2009, 03:22 PM   #56
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it is not bc I am younger
In your days there were not the 'OSAFOS"
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Unread 12-09-2009, 04:04 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
Shabbos?
in the olden times,Semicha was Basar vechalav, melicha, taruvos, treifos(or shechita) .osfos( hagalas keilim,hilchos kiriat haTorah)
Shabbos was for dayanus
Even these days it depends on by whom you are getting your "semicha" by.

(Is it Osafos or hosofos?)
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Unread 12-09-2009, 04:33 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by LION View Post

(Is it Osafos or hosofos?)
in Spanish
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Unread 12-09-2009, 06:33 PM   #59
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Quote:
Shabbos?
in the olden times,Semicha was Basar vechalav, melicha, taruvos, treifos(or shechita) .osfos( hagalas keilim,hilchos kiriat haTorah)
Shabbos was for dayanus.
Programs differ, but that was basically my point. Different programs cover different different material which will increase or decrease the number of pages.
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Unread 12-15-2009, 01:13 AM   #60
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What does it take to be a Rabbi today?

A Rabbi's phone number.

(overheard at a shabbos table)
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Unread 12-15-2009, 08:36 AM   #61
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More true than you can imagine...
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Unread 12-15-2009, 02:02 PM   #62
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What does it take to be a Rabbi today?
Whatever the one giving smichah requires. Which is sometimes not much more than a Rabbi's phone number...
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Unread 12-15-2009, 02:18 PM   #63
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Hopefully after reading this thread people will understand the ambivalence for Chabad in the eyes of greater orthodox Judaism.

1. They rely on Chabad for hashgacha all over the world.

We have made smicha hefker, and rely on yiras shomaim from chasiduss and farbrengens.

How can one even compare a 770 smicha (Labkovsky or Yeruslavsky aka "europass") and a YU smicha?

No wonder they don't like us, or at best ambivalent to Chabad in general.
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Unread 12-15-2009, 04:08 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by avrami87 View Post
770 smicha (labkovsky or yeruslavsky aka "europass") and a yu smicha?

.
rabbis
and BTW YU smichas they also need a Rabbis phone number
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Unread 12-15-2009, 04:10 PM   #65
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What do you mean?
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Unread 12-15-2009, 04:17 PM   #66
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I mean that if you want to diminish the smicha from a regular bocher ,do not extend it to Rabbi Labkovsky or Rabbi Yeruslavsky

and also that YU Rabbis need even more a Rabbi's telephone handy
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Unread 12-15-2009, 04:23 PM   #67
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and also that YU Rabbis need even more a Rabbi's telephone handy



Their smicha program is for 8 years.
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Unread 12-15-2009, 04:35 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Avrami87 View Post
and also that YU Rabbis need even more a Rabbi's telephone handy



Their smicha program is for 8 years.
3 years of learning plus 1 year comined learning and work
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Unread 12-15-2009, 06:27 PM   #69
emes m'eretz
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Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu View Post
Whatever the one giving smichah requires. Which is sometimes not much more than a Rabbi's phone number...
I just want to congratulate Mahtov on reaching the milestone of 770 posts.

(Sorry for interrupting the thread, I just couldn't resist.)
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Unread 12-15-2009, 09:42 PM   #70
MahTovChelkeinu
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I just want to congratulate Mahtov on reaching the milestone of 770 posts.
Didn't even notice. That's okay though, T613 has already passed 7700 and is clearly closing in on 61300.

Quote:
We have made smicha hefker, and rely on yiras shomaim from chasiduss and farbrengens.
First of all, don't mistake a little self depricating humor with an insult. The boys who learn smichah spend a solid year on the program, and Lubavitchers know exactly what they're getting when they test.

Second, don't think that the hashgochas aren't maintained by knowledgeable guys. Learning an extra Pri Megadim does not help you learn the practicalities of modern hashgachah. The OK and the majority of shluchim I know working in the kashrus industry know their jobs well and are very careful.

Third, I have met plenty of YU guys that coast through 3 years just like our guys coast through 1. And I have met plenty of YU guys that obviously know their stuff, just like our guys. Be careful about generalities. The folks that don't like Chabad bchlal don't feel that way because our smichah programs are easier than others, they feel that way because they make stupid generalizations.
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Unread 12-15-2009, 11:10 PM   #71
Torah613
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There is nothing wrong for a proper musmach to have a Rabbi's number in addition to his smicha. That is probably included in "shimush".
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