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Unread 12-22-2003, 01:57 PM   #1
Jude
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Why Eight Days?

There is a very famous question which is asked about Chanukah. This question is commonly called the "Beis Yosef's Kasha" - "The question of the Beis Yosef" - because it was asked by Rabbi Yosef Karo (1448-1575) in his famous work called Beis Yosef (Orach Chaim 670).

(Rabbi Yosef Karo is perhaps better known as the author of Shulchan Aruch, the classical authoritative code of Jewish law.)

The question he asks is, if the reason the Rabbis established Chanukah for eight days is because of the miracle of the lights, that they burned for eight days when there was only enough oil for one day, then the miracle really only happened on the last seven days because there was enough oil for the first day. So why is Chanukah eight days long - it should be just seven days long?

There are literally dozens of answers to this question, in fact, there is a book titled Ner LeMe'ah which is a collection of one hundred answers to this question.

The Beis Yosef himself offers three answers to his question:

(a) They divided the oil into eight parts, so that a miracle indeed occurred every day, when 1/8th of the oil lasted for the entire night.

(b) When they poured out the oil from the jar it remained full, so the miracle was noticeable even on the first night.

(c) After the first night, although they poured all the oil into the Menorah, none of it burned and the Menorah remained full of oil for all eight days.

The Acharonim challenge each of these three answers.

(a) How could they divide the oil into eight parts and use one-eighth every night? We are required to put in the Menorah enough oil to last the entire night (and they did not know that a miracle was going to occur, nor would they have been permitted to rely on a miracle occurring)?

(b) If the jar remained full when they poured the oil, on the eighth night there was no miracle because on the eighth night they emptied the jar.

(c) The oil that had miraculously lasted for seven nights was finally consumed on the eighth night. If so, on the eighth night there was no miracle!

For an incredible presentation of this question, the answers, and the Rebbe's resolution, see:

http://www.ultranet.ca/ClassOne/Menorah.doc
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Unread 12-22-2003, 01:58 PM   #2
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1) The first day of Chanukah was established in memory of the miraculous military victory of the Jews over the Greeks. The last seven days are in memory of the miracle of the lights. (Pri Chadash and Chayei Adam)

2) The eight days of Chanukah parallel the eight days of Sukkos. We find an allusion to Chanukah in Vayikra 24 where the Menorah is discussed immediately after the Torah lists all of the holidays. The last holiday listed is Sukkos, placing it right next to the Chanukah allusion. (Bnai Yisaschar cited in Ta'amei HaMinhagim) We also find a connection between Sukkos and Chanukah in the Book of 2 Maccabees, when the Jews finally retook the Temple they celebrated a sort of supplementary Sukkos because they had been unable to perform the Temple service for Sukkos at its proper time.

3) The Greeks attempted to outlaw the performance of the mitzvah of bris milah - circumcision - which is performed on the eighth day after a boy is born. Thus we celebrate Chanukah for eight days since at this time we were able to continue keeping the mitzvah of bris milah without fear. (Ba'al HaItim cited in Besamim Rosh in Siddur Otzar Tefillos)

4) Rav Simcha Zissel (Chachma U'Mussar, 1:61) explains that our eight day celebration reminds us that everything is miraculous. The very nature of oil which allows it to be kindled and offer light is a miracle! This is why we can make a bracha on the first night. This is the meaning of baz'man hazeh, this very moment as we kindle the Menora.

5) the first day celebrates finding the oil

6) The Chasam Sofer (Derashos 2:66) answers this famous problem as follows: When the Jews overcame the Greeks, they entered the Holy Temple, and found, to their dismay, that it had been overturned and defaced. Furthermore, it was full of idols and graven-images. To light the Menorah inside the Temple was an impossibility. Rather, we can deduce, they removed the Menorah from the Temple, and lit its candles outside, in the streets and courtyards of Yerushalayim. (See Chasam Sofer ibid. for proof that such a lighting is indeed permissible.) [Incidentally, this caused the miracle of Chanukah to receive much greater public recognition than it would have had the Menorah been lit in the Temple, where only the Kohanim would have been privy to the miracle.]

The amount of oil required to keep the flame of a candle burning outside, where it is subject to the wind, is greater than the amount needed inside. When the oil for the Menorah lighting had originally been measured and placed into special bottles, it was done so under the assumption that the candles would be lit inside the Temple, where its flames would not be subject to the wind. Thus, even the first night was a miracle, because the oil should not even have been sufficient even for that night alone!

This, explains the Chasam Sofer, is the meaning of the above section of the "Al Ha-Nisim" prayer: And they lit candles in Your holy Courtyards - note that the prayer specifies that the Chanukah lights were lit in the "courtyards", i.e. the courtyards of Yerushalayim, and not in the Mikdash/Temple. And they established these eight days of Chanukah - it is for this reason that the mitzvah of Chanukah therefore extended for a full eight days.

7) Harav Dovid Halevi of Lvov, author of the Taz, gives the following answer. When the destitute widow of the prophet Ovadiah called out for assistance from Elisha, Elisha asked her the following question "What have you in the house?" The widow replied that she had but a small cruse of oil. Elisha then instructed her to borrow empty vessels and to pour into them from the cruse. The oil miraculously poured until there were no more vessels available for use.

The Holy Zohar comments that from here we learn the nature of miracles. The Almighty is willing to cause the oil to miraculously overflow but will not create abundant oil ex nihilo. Elisha therefore asked, what do you have available to enable the Almighty to perform the miracle.

This, says the Taz, sheds light on the Beis Yosef's question. If all the oil was consumed on the first day, the miracle of the next seven would have been impossible. Only if a modicum of oil was left over from the first day could Hashem cause the oil to miraculously overflow for the next seven. Therefore the miracle of the first day was that all the oil did not burn out, facilitating the basis for the miracle of the next seven days. We are therefore justified for celebrating eight days of Chanukah commensurate to the eight days of miracles.
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Unread 12-22-2003, 04:02 PM   #3
stwill
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
For an incredible presentation of this question, the answers, and the Rebbe's resolution, see:

http://www.ultranet.ca/ClassOne/Menorah.doc [/b]
I always enjoy Tzvi Freeman's articles, but this one is my favorite!
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Unread 12-22-2003, 04:28 PM   #4
Torah613
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I didn't read that whole article (much too long!) - but very doubtful IMO if the sicha in LS v 15 answers the question of the BY - as the question still remains concerning the last day, and the Rebbe in that sicha never makes mention of that question.
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Unread 12-22-2003, 04:38 PM   #5
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over the years there has been much discussion in the kovtzei haoros concerning this, though i can't recall the content
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Unread 12-22-2003, 04:54 PM   #6
Torah613
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Exactly.
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Unread 12-22-2003, 09:28 PM   #7
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For the answer al pi chassidus, see Shaarei Orah, first maamor. I can't find the os just now, but I'm looking as we speak.
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Unread 12-04-2004, 06:53 PM   #8
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Re: Why Eight Days?

Any more? Anyone have the sefer? Want to add a few nice ones?
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Unread 12-05-2004, 10:01 AM   #9
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Re: Why Eight Days?

A little long......
1. Knowing that they could not get new pure oil for another week, the priests planned ahead and divided the oil from the jug they found into eight parts, using one eighth each day. Although there was insufficient oil even on the first day, the Menorah miraculously burnt for the full time.
2. Each day, the jug of oil remained full even after they poured the oil from it.
3. The Menorah cups remained full of oil even after burning through the night. The oil burned, but was not consumed, as in the miracle of the Burning Bush.
4. The miracle of the first day was the mere fact that they were able to find a pure and undefiled jug of oil after all the destruction. This aspect represents the miracle of Jewish survival throughout the generations; we may seem lost and assimilated, but there is always hope of remaining purity.
5. The miracle of the first day was really for the military victory against the enemies. If so, why do we mark the military triumph by lighting a candle on the first day? The victory in battle may have been assumed to be natural, a result of good military tactics. The later miracle of the oil showed us that the war, too, was won thanks to G-ds miraculous intervention.
6. We celebrate for eight days to commemorate our ability to once again enter our newborn children into the Covenant of Abraham. One of the fundamental anti-Jewish Greek decrees was to forbid the practice of Circumcision.
7. According to the Chasam Sofer, there was enough in the jug to burn for one day under normal conditions, but when the Menorah was kindled for the first time outside the Temple in a windswept area, it consumed more oil. It was therefore a miracle that is lasted even the first day. (Many commentaries, however, say that the Menorah was kindled inside the Temple as it should be, not outside).
8. The Maharal of Prague explains: The number seven reflects the natural world; The world was created in seven days, which is why our lives revolve around the seven day weekly cycle. Eight, however, is symbolic of going beyond the natural limitations of seven. It represents reaching for the spiritual and not being bound by physical limitations. The Torah was given at Sinai on the fiftieth day after seven weeks of seven days. So too, the Bris of a child binds him to the spiritual world on the eighth day. We too, celebrate the victory of Jewish spiritual values over the physical values glorified by the Greeks, with eight days of light and learning.
9. Explains that our eight day celebration reminds us that everything is miraculous. The very nature of oil which allows it to be kindled and offer light is a miracle! This is why we can make a bracha on the first night. This is the meaning of baz'man hazeh, this very moment as we kindle the menora.
10. Chanukah reminds us that the Jewish people are not subject to the laws of Nature, (7 is nature) like other peoples and nations. For as long as there is even a minority of Jews who remain faithful to G-d and His Torah and Mitzvoth, in all their purity and holiness, without concession or compromise, there is no power on earth that can overwhelm them.
11. The eight days of Chanukah parallel the eight days of Sukkos. As mentioned before, we find an allusion to Chanukah in VaYikra 24 where the menorah is discussed immediately after the Torah lists all of the holidays. The last holiday listed is Sukkos, placing it right next to the Chanukah allusion. (Bnai Yisaschar cited in Ta'amei HaMinhagim) We also find a connection between Sukkos and Chanukah in the Book of 2 Maccabees, when the Jews finally retook the Temple they celebrated a sort of supplementary Sukkos because they had been unable to perform the Temple service for Sukkos at its proper time.
12. The Greeks attempted to outlaw the performance of the mitzvah of bris milah - circumcision - which is performed on the eighth day after a boy is born. Thus we celebrate Chanukah for eight days since at this time we were able to continue keeping the mitzvah of bris milah without fear. (Ba'al HaItim cited in Besamim Rosh in Siddur Otzar Tefillos)
13. The truth is, had the Maccabees not found the little cruise of pure olive oil, they could have used any oil. While it is best to use olive oil, any oil which burns well may be used in the Temple Menorah. God could have arranged the Chanukah miracle so that the Menorah would burn all 8 days with "miracle oil". But while "miracle oil" is as good as any other oil, it is not olive oil. Thus the lighting with ritually pure olive oil on the first day was also a miracle, for it enabled the Maccabees to light with the preferred oil.
14. There is an opinion that there wasn't even sufficient oil in the jug to light an entire night.
15. Eight miracles happened during Chanukah: G-d fought our battles , G-d judged our Judgement, G-d sought our revenge, G-d delivered the mighty into the hands of the weak, He delivered many into the hands of few, The impure into the power of the pure, The wicked into the hands of the righteous, The vain into the hands of those who study His Torah.
16. They poured the entire contents of the jug into the menorah yet only an eighth burned.
17. The first day of Chanukah was established in memory of the miraculous military victory of the Jews over the Greeks. The last seven days are in memory of the miracle of the lights. (Pri Chadash and Chayei Adam)
18. Rav Simcha Zissel (Chachma U'Mussar, 1:61) explains that our eight day celebration reminds us that everything is miraculous. The very nature of oil which allows it to be kindled and offer light is a miracle! This is why we can make a bracha on the first night. This is the meaning of baz'man hazeh, this very moment as we kindle the Menora.
19. The first day celebrates finding the oil
20. The Chasam Sofer (Derashos 2:66) answers this famous problem as follows: When the Jews overcame the Greeks, they entered the Holy Temple, and found, to their dismay, that it had been overturned and defaced. Furthermore, it was full of idols and graven-images. To light the Menorah inside the Temple was an impossibility. Rather, we can deduce, they removed the Menorah from the Temple, and lit its candles outside, in the streets and courtyards of Yerushalayim. (See Chasam Sofer ibid. for proof that such a lighting is indeed permissible.) [Incidentally, this caused the miracle of Chanukah to receive much greater public recognition than it would have had the Menorah been lit in the Temple, where only the Kohanim would have been privy to the miracle.] The amount of oil required to keep the flame of a candle burning outside, where it is subject to the wind, is greater than the amount needed inside. When the oil for the Menorah lighting had originally been measured and placed into special bottles, it was done so under the assumption that the candles would be lit inside the Temple, where its flames would not be subject to the wind. Thus, even the first night was a miracle, because the oil should not even have been sufficient even for that night alone! This, explains the Chasam Sofer, is the meaning of the above section of the "Al Ha-Nisim" prayer: And they lit candles in Your holy Courtyards - note that the prayer specifies that the Chanukah lights were lit in the "courtyards", i.e. the courtyards of Yerushalayim, and not in the Mikdash/Temple. And they established these eight days of Chanukah - it is for this reason that the mitzvah of Chanukah therefore extended for a full eight days.
21. Harav Dovid Halevi of Lvov, author of the Taz, gives the following answer. When the destitute widow of the prophet Ovadiah called out for assistance from Elisha, Elisha asked her the following question "What have you in the house?" The widow replied that she had but a small jug of oil. Elisha then instructed her to borrow empty vessels and to pour into them from the jug. The oil miraculously poured until there were no more vessels available for use. The Holy Zohar comments that from here we learn the nature of miracles. The Almighty is willing to cause the oil to miraculously overflow but will not create abundant oil ex nihilo. Elisha therefore asked, what do you have available to enable the Almighty to perform the miracle. This, says the Taz, sheds light on the Beis Yosef's question. If all the oil was consumed on the first day, the miracle of the next seven would have been impossible. Only if a modicum of oil was left over from the first day could Hashem cause the oil to miraculously overflow for the next seven. Therefore the miracle of the first day was that all the oil did not burn out, facilitating the basis for the miracle of the next seven days. We are therefore justified for celebrating eight days of Chanukah commensurate to the eight days of miracles.
22. Had the Kohanim used all the oil on the first night, they would have been forced to leave the Menorah unlit for the following week. Instead, they decided to use one-eighth of the oil each night until they could obtain a new supply. But instead of the flames going out during the night, the Menorah remained lit until morning, as if its cups had been filled with oil. Thus, a miracle occurred every night. (Bais Yosef)
23. The Zohar states a principle that God performs a miracle only on something that already exists in some measure. Thus, for example, a partially filled jar can become full miraculously, but God does not fill a jar that is totally empty. According to this rule, we must assume that after the first night's burning, some oil had to be left, despite the fact that it had burned for the full duration. The first day's miracle was that this remnant remained. On the succeeding days, this remnant burned for a full night. (Turei Zahav)
24. True, the miracle of the oil did not begin until the second day, and lasted for only seven days. But the Sages designated the first day of Chanukah as a festival in commemoration of the miraculous military victory over the massive Syrian-Greek legions. (Pri Chadash)
25. The miracle was in the quality not the quantity. The quality was so good that it didnt need to use so much oil and it lasted 8 days. The miracle was that they found such good oil.
26. The purity of the hidden jug was verified by the fact that it was closed with the still unbroken seal of the Kohen Gadol (High Priest). But it was never the Temple practice - before or since - for jugs to be sealed by the Kohen Gadol or anyone else. Instead, a responsible Kohen was put in charge of the manufacture of the oil and its safekeeping. The very fact that God had inspired an earlier Kohen Gadol to seal a jug of oil so that it should be available when needed by the Hasmoneans was in itself a miracle. (Bnai Yisas'char)
27. The Kohanim dismantled the Altar that had been contaminated by the Syrian-Greeks, and replaced it with a newly built Altar, which they then dedicated in an eight-day celebration. The extra day of Chanukah commemorates its dedication. (Birkei Yosef from Megillas Taanis)
28. Since the Temple building had been desecrated by pagan sacrifices and the emplacement of idols, the Hasmoneans lit their Menorah in the Courtyard, out in the open. Normally, a flame exposed to breezes and open air will burn more quickly than one that is sheltered indoors. Nevertheless, the single-day supply burned as long on the first night outdoors as it would have inside the Temple. (Derasho Chasam Sofer)
29. Oil produced through miraculous means would be unfit for the mitzvah, for the Torah calls for "olive oil," not "miracle oil." According to this line of reasoning, the miracle could not have involved an increase in the quantity of oil through the filling of a nearly empty jug or cup - but rather the miracle must have been an intensification of its ability to burn. Instead of using up a cupful of oil each night, each cup of the Menorah consumed only one-eighth of its usual need, while burning all night. Since only an eighth of the normal quota was consumed each night, the miracle occurred on each of the eight days. (Rabbi Chaim Soloveitchick)
30. Having returned to the Temple and found its purity and sacred materials in shambles, the Hasmoneans had no logical reason to think they would find any pure oil. They could have been expected to give up all hope of finding pure oil, and planned ahead for the time when they could obtain a new quantity of oil. Instead, they refused to surrender to the "obvious." So powerful was their will to begin the mitzvah of lighting the Menorah immediately that they began what seemed like a hopeless search for pure oil - and they succeeded! This powerful desire to battle all odds for the sake of a mitzvah represents the miracle of Jewish survival. To commemorate it, the Sages ordained the first day of Chanukah. (Rabbi Yosef Dov Soloveitchik)
31. The Sages chose Chanukah, a festival that revolves around oil's ability to burn, as the time to teach the fundamental truth that even so-called "natural" events take place only because God wants them to. When seen in the perspective of God's will, the burning of oil is no less miraculous than would be the burning of water. The Talmudic Sage Rabbi Chanina Ben Dosa pithily expressed this truth in explaining a miracle that occurred in his own home. Once, his daughter realized that she had poured vinegar instead of oil into the Sabbath menorah. Rabbi Chanina calmed her, saying, "Why are you concerned! The One Who commanded oil to burn, can also command vinegar - and it will burn!" The Talmud goes on to relate that those Sabbath lights remained aflame until after the Sabbath ended (Taanis 25a). To hammer home this truth, the Sages decreed that Chanukah be observed for eight days: The last seven to commemorate the miracle of the Menorah, and the first to remind us that even the 'normal' burning of oil is only in obedience to God's wish. (Rabbi David Feinstein)
32. The Hasmoneans knew that it would take them eight days to get a new supply of oil. They did not want to kindle the Menorah for merely one night and neglect the succeeding seven nights. Hence, they decided to divide the jug of oil into eight equal parts. Miraculously, the small amount of oil used the first night lasted for the entire night.
33. After filling the Menorah on the first night, they saw that the jug remained full of oil. This miracle recurred for the next seven nights.
34. In the evening they poured the entire jug of oil into the Menorah and kindled it. In the morning, they were amazed to find that after burning the entire night the cups were still filled with oil. Thus, on the first night a miracle had already occurred.
35. There is an argument in the Gemara (Shabbat 21b) as to how many candles should be lit each night of Chanukah. According to Beit Hillel, we start the first night with one candle and each night we add a candle. According to Beit Shamai, we start the first night with eight, and decrease by one every night after. According to the Avudraham, one of the meanings of the name "Chanukah" is "Ches Neiros Vehalacha Kebeis Hillel" - "Candles should be lit for eight days, and the halacha is according to Beit Hillel" (that each night we increase one candle). When one looks at the Chanukah Menorah any day of Chanukah, one can immediately tell from the number of candles being lit, that the halacha is according to Beit Hillel. For example; on the third day of Chanukah one sees three candles lit; one then knows that this is according to Beit Hillel, because according to Beit Shamai, there should have been six candles lit. On the sixth day of Chanukah, if one sees six candles lit, one can derive from this that the halacha is according to Beit Hillel, because according to Beit Shamai there should have been only three candles lit. If Chanukah candles were only lit for a period of seven days, then on the fourth night of Chanukah, according to Beit Hillel and also according to Beit Shamai, a total of only four candles would be lit. Thus, if one looked at the Chanukah Menorah that evening, one would not be able to see if the halacha was according to Beit Hillel or Beit Shammai. However, when Chanukah is celebrated for eight days, then on the fourth day, according to Beit Hillel one lights four candles and according to Beit Shamai one lights five candles. Since the word "Chanukah" indicates that the halacha is according to Beit Hillel, Chanukah has to be eight days and not seven days.
36. In Shemonah Esrei and Birchat Hamazon we recite, during Chanukah, the prayer of Al Hanisim. In it, there are a total of eight things mentioned which Hashem did in our behalf to make Chanukah a reality. "You... 1) waged their battles 2) defended their rights 3) avenged the wrong done to them 4) delivered the mighty into the hand of the weak 5) the many into the hand of the few 6) the impure into the hand of the pure 7) the wicked into the hand of the righteous 8) and wanton sinners into the hand of those who occupy themselves with Your Torah." Consequently, Chanukah is celebrated eight days, though the miracle of the oil was only for seven days. (Some difficulties with the above: 1. The Menorah cups must be filled with enough oil to last the night (Menachot 89a). 2. Only pure olive oil is suitable, and not oil derived through a miracle, so each cup the pitcher filled was mixed with both!)
37. In response, Rabbi Chaim Soloveichik of Brisk advances the thought that on the first night the entire jug of oil was poured into the Menorah. The miracle was in the quality of the oil. Oil which normally could burn for one night suddenly acquired the power to last for eight nights. Thus, each night the Menorah remained full, with the original olive oil losing only 1/8th of its "flame" potentiality. Although there are a variety of answers, the Gemora (Shabbos 21B) provides an answer that contains an insight into the indomitable spirit of the Jewish people. The Gemora states, "For when the Greeks entered the Sanctuary, they contaminated all the (flasks of) oil that were in the Sanctuary, and when the Royal Chashmonayim house gained the upper hand and vanquished them, (the Chashmonayim) 'searched' (the Heichel area) and found only one flask of oil that was lying (out of sight) with the Kohen Gadol's seal (still intact)." In reality, the word "searched" is unnecessary, since the omission of "searched" will not alter the meaning of the sentence - "and when the Royal Chashmonayim house gained the upper hand and vanquished them, (the Chashmonayim) found only one flask of oil" The extra word "searched" teaches us that the searching itself was a miracle. The fact that the Jews had been under Greek domination for fifty three years (Rambam in Igeres Teiman) would have been sufficient to break their will and desire to perform mitzvos at all. However, not only did they seek to perform the mitzvah of rekindling the menorah upon regaining control of the Beis Hamikdash, they desired to execute this mitzvah in the most desirable way - with pure olive oil sealed by the Kohen Godol. They searched and explored until they finally found a flask filled with oil suitable for lighting the menorah. Even after many years of oppression and hardship under Greek oppression, the Jewish soul had not been extinguished and burned ever so bright - a true miracle for which we celebrate on the first day of Chanukah.
38. On the 1st night the cups filled up.
39. Just like Succos we add Shmini Atzeret because it says its hard on Hashem our departure so too channukah.
40. They built a new menorah because of tumah so by nature a new menorah would need more oil than old so our new menorah was a miracle on 1st day.
41.The miracle was 1st night also because it was lit an extra hour because it should have be lit hour less because it was a new gold menorah.
42. Gemora brings shlomo ha melech built 10 menorahs in beis hamikdash rebrs says he lit all of them so if lit all in 2 beis hamikdash so according to him1st night was miracle because it lit 10 menorah of jug for 1.
43.Bcs we light before nightfall its like day before so for 26th day we light on 25th so it is know to us on 25th so next years miracle was known so we celebrate 1st day too.
44. The reason we added a day that wasnt a miracle its to teach us even nature is a miracle.
45. The miracle on 1st day they found a tahor cohen.
46. We cant make menorah for weekly matters if in beis hamikdash 7 branches ours change and in order not to make a menorah with 7 so we made 8 days and 8 branches so not over an aveira.
47. Even thought a jug is for one day, some oil sticks to the side so they usually have to use more than a jug for one day so In fact the first day was a miracle in itself (since one jug isnt enough for one day)
48. Some meforshim say that they made an earthen ware menorah, a earthenware kaily (used for the first time) absorbs the liquid so the oil wasnt really enough.
49. Since a miracle cant come from tuma and they saw that this jug had a miracle in it. They knew that when they lit on the first day the oil Tahor from all tuma.

50. Just like the preparation of a mitzvah are a part of it so to the preparations of the miracle is also a miracle. The first day was the preparation of the miracle.

51. They were working to fix over the Bais Hamikdash for eight days. The miracle isnt on the Chanukas Habayis its more on the preparations for the Chanukas Habayis which took 8 days.

52. The Rambam writes that they would light the menorah in during the day too, so the jug was enough for a night but not the day lighting.

53. They couldnt make an oil cup (to put in the menorah) because the wood would become tumai so they decided to dip wicks in oil and wait till it burns and put a new one etc. the miracle was that that wick didnt burn out.

54. They decided to make little wicks so it will be a smaller flame and they would use less oil. The miracle was that even with the little wicks it still lit with a big fire and lasted 8 days.

55. The halacha is that you have to have a complete menorah of seven branches but you only have to light one. The miracle was that even with that jug they lit all seven branches and it lasted 8 days.

56. Really the jug was enough for one day but thats indoors but the bais hamikdash was dirty so they lit it in the azarah which uses more oil because of the wind the miracle was that there was enough for the first night even though it was outside (and of course the remaining 7 days)

57. The remaining seven days couldnt have happened with out the first day so we include it in the miracle.

58. The oil lasted until they came with new oil but it takes 8 to get there and back with a shabbos in the middle which means that it was 9 days so the oil lasted nine days but the first day wasnt a chiddush which comes out it burnt 8 miraculous days.
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Unread 12-22-2006, 01:40 AM   #10
tzfas
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Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
I didn't read that whole article (much too long!) - but very doubtful IMO if the sicha in LS v 15 answers the question of the BY - as the question still remains concerning the last day, and the Rebbe in that sicha never makes mention of that question.
what question remains for the 8th day, there was shemen tohor, there was ten loh midoso, who needs more? the fact that the pach lasted 8 days was a miracle, in whatever way the miracle occured.
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Unread 12-23-2006, 10:24 PM   #11
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The question of the Beis Yosef is not answered because for the last day there seems to be no need for a nes. Although whatever answer will be given to answer the same question on the beis Yosef's explanation (that all meforshim ask), it still is not a new answer. And though I have heard explanations attempting to show how the sicha provides a new answer to the question of the beis Yosef, however I think it is clear when looking at the sicha that there is no intent there to resolve the beis Yosef's question: The Rebbe quotes the different ways of the beis Yosef to explain how the ness occured. And though in the Beis Yosef, these ways are brought in order to answer the question, there is no mention of the question itself in the sicha. I think it is inconceivable to suggest that the Rebbe would suggest an answer to the Beis Yosef's question without mentioning the question. It seems clear that the Rebbe is merely offering a new explanation in the manner of the nes.

While anyone may or may not use that explanation to answer the B"Y's question (together with the countless other answers), it will remain that person's answer (based possibly on an idea in a sicha), and is not correct to say that the Rebbe answers the question (a suggestion that led to much confusion).
A Freilichen Motzoei Zos Chanuka
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Unread 12-23-2006, 10:38 PM   #12
Torah613
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...which is what I wrote (though ) several posts back ...
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Unread 12-23-2006, 11:22 PM   #13
wannabe
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I know. I only took the liberty to elaborate because the obviously didn't suffice. I am always amazed that the majority of the people I speak to stubbornly cling to the erroneous (IMHO) interpetation of the sicha, even though the sicha does not even appear to be ambiguous!

A freilichen tomid!
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Unread 12-23-2006, 11:46 PM   #14
Torah613
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Amazed? I have ceased to be amazed anymore about anything...
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Unread 12-24-2006, 12:50 AM   #15
tzfas
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see the sicha of parshas mikeitz (zois chanuka) 5750 ois daled with the ho'orois. it might help this discussion. especially the 'al achas kama v'chama' in ho'oroh 40.
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