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Unread 12-20-2009, 07:51 PM   #26
Torah613
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IMO, the source of the problem - in our community, at least - is that the majority of financial resources go for peulos, Chabad Houses, and other glamorous projects, and mosdos chinuch (and paying teachers) are of very low priority. VAKML.
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Unread 12-20-2009, 07:57 PM   #27
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Which IMO is also related to the problem that ahavas haTorah is not as highly prevalent and highly regarded as ahavas Yisroel. How many parents yearn that their children should be talmidei chachomim, and fully live up to their academic potential in kedusho--as opposed to just going through "the system"??
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Unread 12-20-2009, 08:10 PM   #28
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Please, please ... do not open that can of worms...
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Unread 12-20-2009, 08:59 PM   #29
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Maybe, if we look at it from a different angle, not sending a child to a Lub school shouldn't be so upsetting. After all, if the kid has some exposure to Chassidus outside the school (parents, tutors, etc.), he will give an haspho'o to the rest of the talmidim and, plus, he will be doing Mitzvos the best of his potential. Besides, he will not get the "bad part" of going through the Lub-system and his parents maybe will be able to get some rebate in the tuition.

After all, H-shem demands from us according to one's abilities...
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Unread 12-20-2009, 09:51 PM   #30
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One sends a child somewhere to learn, not to be mashpia.
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Unread 12-20-2009, 10:43 PM   #31
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Not an official Mashpia but he can influence other children with Chassidishe Middos. Anyways, this is not really a subject for this thread, I think. I believe you're right, the ikar is that he should receive more than give...

Last edited by raf1988; 12-21-2009 at 02:26 AM.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 02:27 AM   #32
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However...it is sad that davke Lubavitcher Yeshivos are so problematic when it comes to finance...
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Unread 12-21-2009, 10:10 AM   #33
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Like I said, I think that's not a fair and accurate generalization.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 11:07 AM   #34
MahTovChelkeinu
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Quote:
However...it is sad that davke Lubavitcher Yeshivos are so problematic when it comes to finance...
Let me modify that statement. "It is sad that Yeshivos are so problematic when it comes to finance... but it is admirable that certain yeshivos try so hard to help."
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Unread 12-21-2009, 03:24 PM   #35
raf1988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu View Post
Let me modify that statement. "It is sad that Yeshivos are so problematic when it comes to finance... but it is admirable that certain yeshivos try so hard to help."
You are absoltutely right! That's the right way of thinking!
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Unread 12-21-2009, 03:49 PM   #36
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Every school is having problems now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu View Post
"Misnagdishe" schools absolutely put an emphasis on ahavas yisroel. I have friends that send to "Lakewood" stream schools that have been incredibly accomodating, particularly to those families involved in Torah-related jobs, and have demonstrated amazing ahavas yisroel. The students in those schools are often also exemplary on this point.

The biggest exception I see to the Ahavas Yisroel is the insistance, from both camps, of denigrating one another.
Agreed, and well put.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 06:15 PM   #37
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Granted. But a chinuch without Chassidus is a big problem IMHO. If it is hard to learn with the right kavono although you learn Chassidus, how much more so learning "Lakewood" style. Of course you have a Mitzvoh of Avahas Yisroel with everyone but we can't be blind to the problems.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 07:18 PM   #38
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Raf, as mentioned above, that has been discussed in lots of other threads. The point of this discussion was that someone said Chabad schools are overly expensive. I and others have said lav davka Chabad; all schools are expensive and some are better than others at helping parents deal with the costs.

If sending to a Chabad school is prohibitively expensive, some on this thread have suggested sending to a non-Chabad school that is less expensive. As I mentioned above, Chabad families will at least start with the idea of sending to a Chabad school. But if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out - sometimes there just isn't enough money.

Now, you'll tell me that its unacceptable to send elsewhere for financial reasons. And I will say that if the family is stretched as far as they can go, perhaps the school is the one that needs to meet them. If the school says no, the conversation is over.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 08:32 PM   #39
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We are also overlooking part of the cause of the problem (which is hard to solve) - the fact that our mosdos have a captive audience.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 09:50 PM   #40
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I.e., they aren't urged to excel by the fear of losing students to their competitor/s.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 11:06 PM   #41
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We are also overlooking part of the cause of the problem (which is hard to solve) - the fact that our mosdos have a captive audience.
The impression that I get from this thread is that this is a problem, but is not 100% true. Consider...

1) The high school aged children are boarding anyway, so parents can send kids out of town if that will yield a better experience. Of course, the best tuition breaks are supposed to reserved for in towners, but that doesn't change the fact that the schools can compete with one another if they wish.

2) Several posters on this thread have indicated that they do have a breaking point in terms of tuition costs. What that is is another question, the point is that the limit exists.

3) Most Chabad schools count on a core of Lubavitchers to fill the classes but are most healthy if they can pick up another 20-40% of their student body from families that are not strictly Lubavitch. This number tends to be higher in the younger grades. If the school is only able to attract the die-hards, the coffers are going to be considerably emptier.
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Unread 12-22-2009, 12:20 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
I.e., they aren't urged to excel by the fear of losing students to their competitor/s.
... and it makes it easier to shlep money.
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Unread 12-22-2009, 12:25 AM   #43
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MTC - There are not that many High Schools to send to, so that cuts down on the competition.

I have more to comment, but I will leave it for now, especially as i do not know how familiar you are with the chinuch scene.
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Unread 12-22-2009, 10:08 AM   #44
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T613 - without getting into my personal situation, I'll say that in my community we have families sending to maybe half a dozen boys high schools and the same number for girls. Maybe that's a bit low, it could be closer to a dozen, but not all in the same year.

Compared to the secular world, that is not a ton of competition. And plane tickets are expensive. And there are not a lot of breaks for outsiders. But with all of that said, its not accurate to say you only have one option.
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Unread 12-22-2009, 10:23 AM   #45
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I said "one" option? I said few ("not many") - which adds up to the same thing.
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Unread 12-22-2009, 01:49 PM   #46
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True, you said few. But even a few is better than only one. And I don't think there's any price fixing going on.
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Unread 12-22-2009, 07:52 PM   #47
Torah613
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Price fixing? C"V! They all just happen to have the "full tuition" of $15,000 (but usually settle for about $10,000).
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Unread 12-22-2009, 08:04 PM   #48
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10.000? maybe only for shluchim
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Unread 12-22-2009, 08:39 PM   #49
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What about the Yeshivas in Canada? Montreal, Toronto? Anyone knows?
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Unread 12-24-2009, 10:26 AM   #50
awonderingjew
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An alternative solution

I am involved with a group of parents who are trying to form a "cooperative" school. The blog below that deals with economics in the Frum world has posted our press release. It should be the first entree, if not search "Jewish cooperative school"
http://orthonomics.blogspot.com/
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. We were told by an expert in the field of Charter schools that this might be the surviving model of the future.
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