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Unread 05-24-2009, 07:03 PM   #1
noahidelaws
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Girls' shlichus

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the real sherut leumi, the service to the jewish nation, is that of chabad shlichus, which for some girls from ey begins with a post-sem, pre-marriage year of service in the fsu or far east.
Let's keep in mind that we're talking about a new, largely post-Gimmel Tammuz phenomenon.

Did any shluchim consult with Rabonim and with Mashpiim about whether the whole idea of unmarried girls having shlichus positions in the middle of nowhere is such a bright idea?

Is there any basis for this in the Rebbe's words?

Who started this trend, and who is maintaining it? Did anyone ask whether it's lechatchile or bedi'eved? Whether it's proper for everyone or only for a select few? Whether there are more appropriate options to keep girls busy productively until they get married?

What about "kol kevuda bas melech pnima"?

What about the nisyonos that it may often involve?

What about the importance of early marriage--it's almost compulsory now for girls to do this before shidduchim even start.

It's great for the shluchim to have free or cheap labour, and may they have more such helpers, but if it's sometimes or often at the expense of the ruchniyus of our girls and future wives and mothers, is it proper?
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Unread 05-24-2009, 07:31 PM   #2
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Where I am, we are getting the select few, believe me. I don't know whether it works in all instances.
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Unread 05-24-2009, 07:36 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
Let's keep in mind that we're talking about a new, largely post-Gimmel Tammuz phenomenon.

Did any shluchim consult with Rabonim and with Mashpiim about whether the whole idea of unmarried girls having shlichus positions in the middle of nowhere is such a bright idea?

Is there any basis for this in the Rebbe's words?

Who started this trend, and who is maintaining it? Did anyone ask whether it's lechatchile or bedi'eved? Whether it's proper for everyone or only for a select few? Whether there are more appropriate options to keep girls busy productively until they get married?

What about "kol kevuda bas melech pnima"?

What about the nisyonos that it may often involve?

What about the importance of early marriage--it's almost compulsory now for girls to do this before shidduchim even start.

It's great for the shluchim to have free or cheap labour, and may they have more such helpers, but if it's sometimes or often at the expense of the ruchniyus of our girls and future wives and mothers, is it proper?
This is why, despite the shana bet idea in BR (KC), a lot of people are protesting.
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Unread 05-24-2009, 09:35 PM   #4
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To answer in brief
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Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
Let's keep in mind that we're talking about a new, largely post-Gimmel Tammuz phenomenon.
Correct.
Quote:

Did any shluchim consult with Rabonim and with Mashpiim about whether the whole idea of unmarried girls having shlichus positions in the middle of nowhere is such a bright idea?
Doubtful. Many respected mechanchim are totally against it.
Quote:

Is there any basis for this in the Rebbe's words?
No. Just like there is no basis for the parrallel pheonomena by bochurim.
Quote:

Who started this trend, and who is maintaining it? Did anyone ask whether it's lechatchile or bedi'eved? Whether it's proper for everyone or only for a select few? Whether there are more appropriate options to keep girls busy productively until they get married?
Short answer: No. Longer answer: it is cheaper than a second year of sem (a real problem, BTW...).
Quote:
What about "kol kevuda bas melech pnima"?
Does not exist in our circles anymore. ושלוחות תוכיח...
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What about the nisyonos that it may often involve?
Yes - the horror stories abound.
Quote:

What about the importance of early marriage--it's almost compulsory now for girls to do this before shidduchim even start.
Well, the shidduch crises is probably part of the cause of this issue.
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It's great for the shluchim to have free or cheap labour, and may they have more such helpers, but if it's sometimes or often at the expense of the ruchniyus of our girls and future wives and mothers, is it proper?
Same tayno about the bochurim.
We are witnessing a total breakdown of the system - for both genders.
ואין להאריך בדבר המבהיל.
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Unread 05-24-2009, 09:52 PM   #5
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And those who prefer to sit and learn are thought to be "second-class", because they weren't "devoted" enough to the Rebbe to go on shlichus before marriage.
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Unread 05-24-2009, 09:56 PM   #6
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And those who prefer to sit and learn are thought to be "second-class", because they weren't "devoted" enough to the Rebbe to go on shlichus before marriage.
farmers?
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Unread 05-24-2009, 10:00 PM   #7
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Huh?
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Unread 05-24-2009, 10:02 PM   #8
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Huh?
it was a joke

but it is true what you say
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Unread 05-24-2009, 10:08 PM   #9
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I've raised before on this forum the ideas that girls would be well served to stay in sem for a 2nd year, or even until they get married. I said that lehavdil a uni course that girls take is usually for 3 yrs. But it's not socially expected, so why do it?

torah613: Which mechanchim are against it? Please name names.
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Unread 05-24-2009, 10:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
it was a joke



but it is true what you say
Okay, thanks for the clarification.

Of course it's true- I'm always right. Mind you, I never cared whether people thought I was sug alef or sug bet, but some people do care...

Quote:
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I've raised before on this forum the ideas that girls would be well served to stay in sem for a 2nd year, or even until they get married. I said that lehavdil a uni course that girls take is usually for 3 yrs. But it's not socially expected, so why do it?
Good idea, provided you answer the question of tuition and coursework. Also, it's the norm in BY- most girls go for two years. Though there's a trend towards one year only, IIRC, most BY sems have two-years systems. Go figure....

The dumbest thing in the world is social expectations.
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Unread 05-24-2009, 10:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
I've raised before on this forum the ideas that girls would be well served to stay in sem for a 2nd year, or even until they get married. I said that lehavdil a uni course that girls take is usually for 3 yrs. But it's not socially expected, so why do it?

torah613: Which mechanchim are against it? Please name names.
Money talks
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Unread 05-24-2009, 11:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
I've raised before on this forum the ideas that girls would be well served to stay in sem for a 2nd year, or even until they get married. I said that lehavdil a uni course that girls take is usually for 3 yrs. But it's not socially expected, so why do it?

torah613: Which mechanchim are against it? Please name names.
I'll answer thath last question:
All the Hanholo from Rabbi Havlin's seminary in Yeryshalyim. (known as old Yeru)
Rabbi Chitrik from Tzfas seminary.
Mrs. Gorowitz who is VEHEMENTLY against it and adds an addition reason (besides all the one's enumarated) that there are couples stuck in CH without shlichus and They should be the one's filling those positions.
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Unread 05-24-2009, 11:06 PM   #13
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Mrs. Gorowitz is the principal of Beis Rivka sem in CH, right?
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Unread 05-24-2009, 11:12 PM   #14
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correct
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Unread 05-25-2009, 08:35 AM   #15
Torah613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
I've raised before on this forum the ideas that girls would be well served to stay in sem for a 2nd year, or even until they get married. I said that lehavdil a uni course that girls take is usually for 3 yrs. But it's not socially expected, so why do it?

torah613: Which mechanchim are against it? Please name names.
R' Chitrick of Tzfas has written against it (of course, some will say he wants to increase enrollment (as if he needs to...), and therefore passel what he says...).
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Unread 05-25-2009, 11:11 AM   #16
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most problably when Rabbi Chitrick and the others directors and principals .farbreng with the girls, they tell them that is a terrible idea
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Unread 05-27-2009, 02:51 PM   #17
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Some will say that Chitrik wants to increase enrollment; fact is, he has a point. That does not mean to davka enroll in his program. It means to take into consideration that shlichus before marriage is lav davka the best thing to do, nor the most laudible.
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Unread 05-27-2009, 07:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Some will say that Chitrik wants to increase enrollment;
I already pointed that out.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 06:04 PM   #19
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True; I was trying to add to that.
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Unread 05-31-2009, 06:37 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Some will say that Chitrik wants to increase enrollment; fact is, he has a point. That does not mean to davka enroll in his program. It means to take into consideration that shlichus before marriage is lav davka the best thing to do, nor the most laudible.
He has more applicants than spots available; no need for him to increase enrollment.
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Unread 05-31-2009, 09:48 AM   #21
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For shana alef, not for shana bet.
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Unread 05-31-2009, 10:12 AM   #22
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these are shtuyot

Anybody who knows Rabbi Chitrick, knows that he really cares for the girls
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Unread 05-31-2009, 10:55 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
these are shtuyot

Anybody who knows Rabbi Chitrick, knows that he really cares for the girls
Rabbi Chitrik needs to increase enrollment like he needs to increase his height and weight.

Shana Bet is new anyway and no matter what would take a little while to get started. He'll do just fine with or without girls going on shlichus.
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Unread 05-31-2009, 06:42 PM   #24
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For shana alef, not for shana bet.
...and takes lesss money for shana beis...
But it is all right - one can find a motive for anyone that says anything.
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Unread 06-06-2009, 05:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
these are shtuyot

Anybody who knows Rabbi Chitrick, knows that he really cares for the girls
Could be that he really cares, but fact is that money comes into play as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysegiszt View Post
Rabbi Chitrik needs to increase enrollment like he needs to increase his height and weight.

Shana Bet is new anyway and no matter what would take a little while to get started. He'll do just fine with or without girls going on shlichus.
Actually, he could probably use a weight increase...oh, sorry, that's Chefer that could use it. Eh, same thing...

Shana bet is not that new, and has already gotten started.

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...and takes lesss money for shana beis...
But it is all right - one can find a motive for anyone that says anything.
Does he take less money? I never had any reason to find out, but it could be.
Motives are the most important factor in almost anything.
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