Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Torah and Judaism > Teenagers

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 01-07-2003, 04:03 PM   #1
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
High School Girls?!

A mother told me about her daughter who went on the Beis Rivka Shabbaton for 9th, 10th, and 11th graders. She said girls went on shopping trips to be well-outfitted for the event, and stood on line for manicures

Any high school posters out there? Can you explain this?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 04:23 PM   #2
hishtatchus
Senior Diamond Member
 
hishtatchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,606
What are you surprised about?
hishtatchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 04:39 PM   #3
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
1) not all high school girls do this, and I would bet that B.R. girls of 15-20 years ago, didn't do this either. So I'm surprised by the deterioration of values.

2) I'm surprised and disappointed by how most parents have given up, and are impotent when it comes to properly raising their children.

As this mother I spoke to said, her daughter threw a few things into a suitcase and that was that. Mind you, her daughter is no neb. This behavior is just not something her mother would condone.

This same woman told me that she'll never forget how years ago, her then five year old asked her something to which she answered, "no." Her daughter then asked, "Is that because 'you said so?'

You're darn right kiddo. Mommy said no, and no is no. I don't think too many mothers are doing that these days. Instead they say inane things like, "No, okay?" Or they say no, but the kids know that with time, no becomes yes.
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 04:45 PM   #4
yehonasan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 231
Why are you surprised Jude?

People need to open their eyes to the serious deterioration of values. Parents say, "what can I do? I cannot prevent my daughter from wearing clothes that she bought with her own money?"

Why not? Of course a parent can do this.

We say to our 12 year old daughter: As long as you are living in our house, you live by our standards -- not the standards of anybody else in this community.

Is this too harsh? I truly don't think so.
__________________
Achdus Yisroel!
yehonasan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 05:01 PM   #5
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
I guess I'm basically an optimistic kind of person and so I expect that other parents will want to do a good job raising their kids, and then I'm surprised when they don't.
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 05:47 PM   #6
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
I think everyone WANTS to do a good job. The difference is how much they are prepared to go against the tide.
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 05:59 PM   #7
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
Why is it that being a good parent today requires going against the tide? Why aren't we in this together? Why do I have to fight for what's right when living among people of similar background?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 06:05 PM   #8
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
Because we have allowed a CULTURE to develop in our schools which is anti ethical to Chasidishkeit. It took years to develop and will take years to clean up.
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 06:08 PM   #9
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
why do you think (the collective) we allowed it?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 06:11 PM   #10
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
Because since we are so open to the outside world, we are terribly scared that our kids will decide to leave and join it. So we are scared to push (or pull, if you want ) and the kids sense this.
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 06:14 PM   #11
zaque36
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 767
hmmm, i dont think its as much as the parents' fault as it is the girls'. They have to learn to stand up to the other girls, and realize what's important in life. yeah, its hard, but it'll be worth it later on in life.
side point-when parents go to an event-wedding, bar mitzvah, even just a vacation, dont they too shop and buy special things? why is it so drastically different with them?
__________________
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.
zaque36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 06:40 PM   #12
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
Quote:
Because since we are so open to the outside world, we are terribly scared that our kids will decide to leave and join it. So we are scared to push (or pull, if you want ) and the kids sense this.
but isn't that exceedingly odd when:

1) the Rebbe's sichos (and letters) show how much MORE extreme he is when it comes to secular studies, college etc. than other frum groups.

2) if we're really afraid that our kids will leave, wouldn't that motivate us to be super-sheltered as in other communities?

back to #1 - many people say what you wrote, that we are so open to the outside world. Do you think the Rebbe then gave mixed messages - on the one hand an extreme shelteredness, and on the other hand, encouragement to use everything for G-dly purposes as well as encouragement to reach out to those on the outside?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 06:46 PM   #13
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
I don't know if the R gave mixed messages, but I think that's how it's being interpreted.

Since the present system is obviously not working, I think we need to make some radical changes.

IMHO, we need to go to the most "extreme" BY's and Chassidishe Yeshivas and copy the way they shelter their kids, and the standards that the demand. Once they are married, then we can prepare them for shlichus.
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 08:10 PM   #14
zaque36
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 767
Quote:
IMHO, we need to go to the most "extreme" BY's and Chassidishe Yeshivas and copy the way they shelter their kids, and the standards that the demand. Once they are married, then we can prepare them for shlichus.
rebyid, you think that it's shlichus thats causing this!?!?!?!
__________________
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.
zaque36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 08:46 PM   #15
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
Do we need to go to them to copy what they do, or do we have the prescription and guidelines right there in our very own sichos, and what we need to do is FOLLOW THEM? As I said previously, the Rebbe is MORE extreme than those you mention. To cite one example, the Rebbe calls chinuch al taharas ha'kodesh, chinuch with ZERO secular studies. That's NO math or English. None of the groups you refer to, espouse that.
But I think this has been discussed before in other threads, and it's somewhat off the topic. The things I mentioned in the initial post are not so much about secular values as narishkeiten.

To be specific - shopping for a wardrobe for a Shabbaton is absurd. You take what you wear on a non-Shabbaton Shabbos and go! Shabbatons are about having fun together with your classmates, not about a fashion show.

and manicures have no place whatsoever for high school girls; I put it in the category of makeup which the school forbids.
One can question whether adults should spend money to trim their kelipos, but that's for another discussion .
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 08:56 PM   #16
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
I don't think English and Math is the problem. (Whether it should be learnt is a different issue)

It's the goyishe values that our kids are picking up. And it EXPRESSES itself in their mode of dress and speech.

Others are doing a better job of chinuch and we need to emulate them, not deride them.
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2003, 11:47 PM   #17
Dr. Yisroel
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 313
Its a hard call. We are faced with many issues in this generation that have never come up before.

This generation is an openly rebellious one. The more we push them, the more they push away from us in an attempt to form independance.

We need to be consultants. The teenage years are not the time to come down on them. When the are 7 and 8 you can tell them what to do. We have to take a step back. Let them make their own choices and halp them when they make mistakes.

For example, child wants to go out. You want her to be back at 11, she wants to be back "whenever". Use "I" messages. "I" go to sleep at 11, "I" am afraid to leave the door unlocked when I go to sleep. If you are not here I will be happy to leave your pillow and blanket on the front porch. Of course, I wake up at 6 and I will be more than happy to let you in to get ready for school.

Its simple. Takes a little tough love. But, the rewards are tremendeous.

If you have any specific questions you would like answered, send me an email.
__________________
Yisroel
Dr. Yisroel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2003, 12:11 AM   #18
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
And you think in Belz they have these problems like we do?
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2003, 12:22 AM   #19
masbir
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,287
Whats new? the same recycled issues by the same writers/posters. The problem was already discussed on this forum, ad nuaseum. Lets try to do something about our own children.
masbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2003, 12:46 AM   #20
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
You may have noticed that many threads are recycled lately. Thats what happens when you have too few posters.
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2003, 12:59 AM   #21
poshut
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 264
I heard today, from a non-Lubavitch couple that attended the Beis Rivkah Shabbaton (the husband was there as an Hatzolah member), how they were very impressed by the "Lubavitcher meidlach." They compared them to their own, chasidishe girls, and found them much more spirited, chayusdik, and, and here's the good news, knowledgable.

They were very impressed by the speakers, and the topics they discussed with the girls, They were totally floored by the Stump the Rabbi Session, which lasted till 4:00 AM -- the subjects, and depth of the questions.

So let's hear it for the education in our Beis Rivkah schools. And let's continue to educate our daughters in our schools and not in BY, despite all the posts raving about them, and putting down ours.
poshut is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2003, 01:38 AM   #22
BrookAve
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 647
To my 3 high school daughters I say,"wear a sweater and a smile!" For a few months my 9th grader was buying clothes and wearing them once and this irritated my wife. So we both went with my daughter and cleaned out her closet. It was a hysterical scene. My wife asked why you dont like, the reasons were so funny..."they dont wear that, its nerdy, its immature, its so out this season, etc." SO we left dozens of hangers there and gave the pile to gemach. This was years ago. NOw that she is married, she values her clothes and will actually repeat an outfit. B"H. I will be the first one to say that I am very strict with my children as far a skirt lengths,NO SLITS, NO SLOUCH SOCKS IN THE HOUSE. One day we dropped my daughter off a party where there were 10 of her friends by the curb. All of them had skirts just "grazing" the knee (which means that it rides up when sitting) The pressure to buy short was irritating her but We, her parents refused. Yes WE ARE THE PARENTS. Never let them treat you like you are one of the gang. If you give in, it is BAD news.
BrookAve is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2003, 01:42 AM   #23
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
Serves you right for taking her to a party with those BY girls.
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2003, 01:46 AM   #24
hishtatchus
Senior Diamond Member
 
hishtatchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,606
Not that I agree with the abovementioned girls 100%, but sometimes it takes a special occasion to take an honest look at what you have. And sometimes, you realize that you "have no clothes!" (Translation: You have nothing Shabbosdik that actually looks good on you).

IOW, maybe it's not that they are buying clothes specifically for the Shabbaton, but buying clothes because the Shabbaton forced them to look at their wardrobe. Hard as it is to believe, at home some girls will wear either robes or clothes that are not quite Shabbosdik, but at a Shabbaton it's different.

As for manicures, I can't even relate- in my house we just "don't."
hishtatchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2003, 01:48 AM   #25
BrookAve
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 647
Classmates, and most were from GESZER families from C.H. Did you ever???
BrookAve is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Girls' high schools PeaceInIsrael Teenagers 163 05-05-2009 01:27 AM
Interesting games for high school girls at malava malkas calmsoul Teenagers 13 04-30-2007 11:33 AM
Yeshiva High School Of Tucson Fundraiser Raffle, Be a part of a child's Chinuch!! YeshivaTucson Bulletin Board 6 06-07-2005 03:28 AM
Post high school!!?!!? Smarty Teenagers 66 09-12-2003 01:16 AM
high school? Nata General 39 07-30-2003 10:25 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com