Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Torah and Judaism > Moshiach

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 02-13-2006, 02:02 AM   #101
Hiskashrus
Diamond Member
 
Hiskashrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,450
Quote:
They alternate between Yiddish and Hebrew. The Hebrew ones were prepared under the direction of the Rebbe himself.
this obviously shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.

and do you know why LS isn't that popular among the velt?

let me ask you another question: when, and why did LS start?
HINT: His kids are big anti M's
__________________
Hiskashrus: available at a sforim shank near you

Last edited by Hiskashrus; 02-13-2006 at 02:05 AM.
Hiskashrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 02:04 AM   #102
Hiskashrus
Diamond Member
 
Hiskashrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,450
and it was I, not chossidnistar, who posted the info about yudel krinsky. i was merely stating that both have the same author
__________________
Hiskashrus: available at a sforim shank near you
Hiskashrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 02:06 AM   #103
Meshulam
Senior Diamond Member
 
Meshulam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by chossidnistar
If it is so simple, why the need to treat people as stupids, that they need "brief explanations"
So quick to judge a work you have not read?

The brief explanations explain the context of certain statements. Most of them are lifted right from the Marei Makomos and the Haaros of the original sicho. Others (which are few and far between) provide information like the following.

* Targum Yonatan is the Aramaic translation of the Bible attributed to Yonatan ben Uziel, a disciple of the famed Talmudic sage, Hillel the Elder.

The translator actually writes that he tries his hardest to do the absolute least amount of editing possible. His hope is to provide an accurate translation, and to add as little as possible to the sicho. Only those areas where he can provide background information that does not at all involve interpretation does he provide his own brief explanations, like the aforementioned.

Nice try though.
Meshulam is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 02:07 AM   #104
chossidnistar
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meshulam
, In fact, the publisher/translater never writes Yechi anywhere. In the "shar blat," he attributes the work to "The Lubavitcher Rebbe" (rather than the "Lubavitcher Rebbe Melech HaMoshiach LeOlam Voed, or some such thing). So all this is is a resource. Moreover, its a resource from the Rebbe himself. So please hold your commentary, if you have any respect for your Rebbe! I am not a propaganda artist (though maybe the Rebbe was, heh). So your accusations are misplaced.

oh If the publisher does not write "Yechi", what does this mean?
Again, what to play with the intelligence of people?

If it is real Emes, he should write " Yechi", he shoul write Melech HaMoshiach, otherwise he is a Kofer! Ja ve Shalom!
chossidnistar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 02:09 AM   #105
Meshulam
Senior Diamond Member
 
Meshulam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiskashrus
this obviously shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.
I don't know why you would say that. Open a Sefer HaSichos Taf Shin nun Alef, or Beis, and you will see that the sichos alternate between Yiddish and Hebrew. I wasn't talking about LS. I don't see why the other questions are germaine.[/quote]
Meshulam is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 02:18 AM   #106
Hiskashrus
Diamond Member
 
Hiskashrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,450
Quote:
The Hebrew ones were prepared under the direction of the Rebbe himself.
i am talking about the second half of the statement

also, if you will know some history about likuttei sichos, and sichos of the rebbe in general, then you will get a better understanding about who the 91-92 sichos were intended for.

in brief, likuttei sichos was founded by bentzion shemtov, and it was mean for people to learn during and after shul (as well as during the break between krias hatorah). IOW, these were drashos that were supposed to be learned in public, in a dvar torah fashion, and that's how the first four volumes were published, and in which shemtov participated in.

i highly doubt that 50% of the sichos from LS can be repeated in shul, without in depth study.

and what about the time the rebbe said on Rabbi Gerlitzky "He is the only one who learns my sichos as it should be" this is a seemingly contradictory statement to the fact that LS is something to be understood by women and children, which is why it was written in yiddish to begin with, since any lomdus is not written in yiddish - never ever in the history of klal yisroel.

besides, the yiddish of the later volumes, beginning from 15, is not real yiddish, but what people refer to as yeshivish.

now you understand that the sichos aren't that easy to understand.

btw, NS and SJ were the ones who wrote the 91-92 sichos, and they were approved by the rebbe, the yiddish ones being published in the algemeiner, and the hebrew one being published in the kfar chabad magazine

ps. i am sure that t613 will correct me on some facts, but these are rather accurate
__________________
Hiskashrus: available at a sforim shank near you

Last edited by Hiskashrus; 02-13-2006 at 02:21 AM.
Hiskashrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 02:53 AM   #107
chossidnistar
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meshulam
The translator actually writes that he tries his hardest to do the absolute least amount of editing possible. His hope is to provide an accurate translation, and to add as little as possible to the sicho. Only those areas where he can provide background information that does not at all involve interpretation does he provide his own brief explanations, like the aforementioned.

Nice try though.
Do you know who checked the Marei Mekomos, before each Sichah was published? And how the Marei Mekomos were checked?

this " to add little as possible" in a Sichah, can bring a complete different perspective .
You say " people r going to arrive to my conclusion"
they can arrive to your conclusion, not trough learning these "translations"
you learn the gemara , then u say your Rashi, do no t forget, that there is also Tosafos, Rosh, Marshah,Pnei Yoshuah, Rambam, Rif,Tur,mechaver.Ramah,Shach, Taz, Magen Avrohom,Alter Rebbe, Alter Rebbe for Chassidim(many diferent psakim)
You can bring people to conclude like you, if you tell them to see a video , when the Rebbe encouraged singing Yechi, or a brochah to someone, and so on, and saying that nothing changed after Guimel Tamuz,

but or to : make an informed decision" with these Translations, it is not fair,
chossidnistar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 03:07 AM   #108
believer
Executive Member
 
believer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrigued
It would appear that the annointing of Mashiach occurs from Hashem.
The acceptance of Mashiach is left up to the people.
But who crowns Mashiach?
pick me! pick me!!!!
__________________
is the me i see the me the Rebbe wants me to be?
believer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 03:58 AM   #109
Majorthinker
Executive Diamond Member
 
Majorthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by believer
pick me! pick me!!!!
ain melech b'lo am- you may certainly be one of those to crown moshiach.
__________________
!חסידים איין משפחה
One big happy family!

הוי כתלמידיו של אהרן הכהן!
Majorthinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 09:18 AM   #110
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiskashrus
btw, NS and SJ were the ones who wrote the 91-92 sichos, and they were approved by the rebbe, the yiddish ones being published in the algemeiner, and the hebrew one being published in the kfar chabad magazine

ps. i am sure that t613 will correct me on some facts, but these are rather accurate
The alternating weeks was the peace treaty between LHK and VHT. AFAIK the hago'oh was the same as far as the Rebbe was concerned, though the styles differ because of the different writers.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 09:42 AM   #111
Hiskashrus
Diamond Member
 
Hiskashrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,450
i was unaware of the conflict, i thought they worked together. but i got the names right?
__________________
Hiskashrus: available at a sforim shank near you
Hiskashrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 09:56 AM   #112
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meshulam
This has been discussed at length elsewhere. Suffice it to say that your pithy summary of Rambam hardly does justice to the topic.

For a good treatment of that subject, see www.moshiachfacts.com in the q & a section.
Good treatment? Nu nu...
See the following thread (about mes and nehrag) http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?p=10165
and here are 2 unforgettable posts by the great Masbir...
Quote:
Originally Posted by masbir
<<<. This question from the Rambam has been discussed at length elsewhere. In a nutshell, the two rather simple and plausible explanations are:
(a) "Killed" implies the person's campaign and efforts were thwarted and successfully undermined. If the candidate merely "died", however, his messianic >>>

This in neither simple neither plausible as it has spurred much controversy in many journals, and indeed seems to me a willful gilu ponim shlo Kahalacha.
http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/show...1&postcount=33
Quote:
Originally Posted by masbir
About the diffrence between being killed and and dying regarding Mashiach, there is no room here to discuss the details, look in the journal Mashaich Ugeuleh volume 1 for the discussion. But the whole distinction based on thechnical diyuk without any plausible proof to support such a willy nilly distinction, is not plausible.

Gilu ponim? Since the diyuk was born out of the desperation of gimmel Tamuz, and if not the Rebbes passing, no one would dream of such an idea - this is gilu ponim
http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/show...5&postcount=41

Last edited by Torah613; 02-13-2006 at 09:58 AM.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 11:06 AM   #113
Meshulam
Senior Diamond Member
 
Meshulam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,427
I don't know that a couple of statements by a poster of CT disproves a diyuk on Rambam. They are his opinions. This subject isn't as simple as you want it to be.

As for the latter sichos: I don't know how any of what you (Hiskashrus) brought above changes the fact that clear horaos, written in clear, easy to understand language are meant to be understood simply by the masses.
Meshulam is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 11:08 AM   #114
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
As statements on the web on a website don't create a diyuk (a diyuk that is contradicted by the reisha, and by the Rebbe, ואכמ"ל)...

Last edited by Torah613; 02-13-2006 at 11:12 AM.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 11:09 AM   #115
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiskashrus
i was unaware of the conflict, i thought they worked together. but i got the names right?
No. SJ and DF (though there probably was input from NS in certain sichos מפי השמועה וכבוד א' הסתר דבר, וד"ל).
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 11:11 AM   #116
Meshulam
Senior Diamond Member
 
Meshulam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,427
Fair enough. My point was that the issue is not simple. I think that Moshiachfacts.com gives a good explanation. That's my opinion. The fact is that Rambam's loshon is very m'dayek. His choice of neharag rather than namus I find significant.

As for the claim that this diyuk would not have been necessary but for gimel Tamuz taf shin nun daled: of course. But there are plenty of concepts that we can't fully understand until the situation requires us to understand them.

But I am modeh to the fact that this diyuk is not "obvious." (I think that the sichos also clarify this issue significantly. But this is not the forum to discuss that.)
Meshulam is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 03:19 PM   #117
Hiskashrus
Diamond Member
 
Hiskashrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,450
t613, thx.

meshulam, of course the horaos were easy to understand, but the horaos were to increase in simcha and do more torah and mitzvos.
how one understands those horaos can only be to the extent of his general understanding of the sicha.

what i was trying to imply from the LS story is, that we cannot tell for sure what the sichos are supposed to accomplish, and they are obviously not to be taken for face value as simple "divrei torah" that are understood by the masses.
__________________
Hiskashrus: available at a sforim shank near you
Hiskashrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-09-2011, 03:12 AM   #118
THESEETHINGPOT
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1
:-d

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul View Post
before anyone answer any of my questions do not send me to another site to look it up and don't write it in hebrew please....
give me the answers in laymen terms
1. if the Rebbe is Moshiach why didn't the Rebbe just say it. B'klal lubavitch argue among themselves to the point of not accepting them in their schools.
2. i want Moshiach very much, and now! to be honest i really don't care who it is!! why does it matter who it is???
3. i heard some people say the Rebbe called the Freideker Rebbe Moshiach what does that mean and if he did how is it possible for the Rebbe to be Moshiach
4 why do some only learn the sichos dealing with Moshiach? (from the latter years they say it is the most relevant).
are some sichos more important than others, are not maamarim very important to learn is that not the meat and potatoes?
the individual who on this thread who believes the Rebbe is Moshiach ....nu is the whole focus to prove it to everyone or what is the avodah for you to do(i am not trying to be rude i am truly curiuos) it seems so much energy goes into proving the Rebbe is Moshiach, is that the directive the Rebbe gave?
I love your energy. Blessings to you.
THESEETHINGPOT is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-13-2011, 08:46 PM   #119
Glass_Esther
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrigued View Post
It would appear that the annointing of Mashiach occurs from Hashem.
The acceptance of Mashiach is left up to the people.
But who crowns Mashiach?
I'm getting so lost in this thread, lol

Wouldn't we, as one, "bow down" to Mashiach and therefore crown Him King? (completing the process started from Hashem)

(At least that was how it happened in a dream.)


-esther
Glass_Esther is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-14-2011, 02:39 AM   #120
Sponge
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 17
Moshiach

I want to get a take on how other Jew's believe on certain topics.Please have patience with me.Does the Urim and Thumim rest on Moshe according to the blessing Moshe gave Levi before his passing? Is the Urim and Thumim essentially prophecy,knowing Hashem face to face,and hearing from Hashem directly? Is the prophet that arises with Umim and Thumim,Moshe incarnated or reincarnated? Lastly, what if a person with Umim and Thumim was told by Hashem, "Your Moses,The Annointed One"? Please respond in all earnestness and humility.I think that the Urim and Thumim is light and perfection (or judgement) which was given to Aaron by Moshe and placed in Aaron's breastplate, was upon his heart..Moshe has Urim and Thumim and will be the priest that arises with Umim and Thumim enabling him to point out a high priest..Was Moshe a priest forever after the order of Melchizadik..In Dovid's psalm the Lord said to my Lord,was the Ancient of Days speaking to Moshaich or merkabah ? Anyway,Moshe was King in Jeshurun (Yisrael) and the only King who ever annointed himself..It is written that Moshe annointed everything in the Mishkan with the annointing oil..This included himself..Moshe incarnated or reincarnated as Moshiach would not have to be reannointed..This would alleviate the problem of finding the annointing oil..Moshe would already be the annointed King and Moshiach,alive and just waiting to be revealed and accepted...

Last edited by Sponge; 07-25-2011 at 03:19 AM.
Sponge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-12-2012, 09:58 AM   #121
voice
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by DW Duke View Post
Here is a thought Kol. We know that Rebbe was not Moshiach ben David for a number of reasons. But is it possible that he was the one described in Malachi 3:1-4?
He was. And I believe I am Moshiach. Is this . . .for you. And for moderater don't ban me, because of this . . Because I want convince every one on this matter , i am not fool or insane. This boldness ( telling you i am . . ) tells me my sanity than . .
voice is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-19-2012, 09:01 PM   #122
GoHebrew
Junior Member
 
GoHebrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 15
Moshiach is not necessarily anointed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrigued View Post
It would appear that the annointing of Mashiach occurs from Hashem.
The acceptance of Mashiach is left up to the people.
But who crowns Mashiach?

Moshiach is not necessarily anointed.

Only if there is a dispute regarding who in fact is king, is the king anointed.

But if there is not a dispute over who is king, the the moshiach is not anointed.
GoHebrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Messiah Indifference by David Berger endee Book Reviews 413 05-09-2006 08:59 PM
Swastika in Crown Heights! shliachman Current 3 12-25-2004 11:32 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com