Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Torah and Judaism > General

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 05-11-2004, 08:31 PM   #1
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
Hergeshim

Quote:
Originally posted by Torah613
Why? Because I dared to disagree with some who denigrated a segement of klal yisroel based on some ridiculous hergesh?
what makes a hergesh ridiculous? is there any objective criteria?

Quote:
Originally posted by Torah613
I think one has to be wary of new inventions and new hergeshim which we didnt hear from our Rebbeim.
how wary should one be, or by wary do you mean don't do anything we didn't hear from the Rebbeim?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-11-2004, 09:01 PM   #2
LION
Diamond Member
 
LION's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,122
Re: Hergeshim

Quote:
Originally posted by Jude


what makes a hergesh ridiculous?
"kol hergish more al mitzius" .
__________________
"The Lion's roar"
LION is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-11-2004, 09:04 PM   #3
iamachassid
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,395
translation?
__________________
Before you go to bed give your troubles to G-d, He will be up all night anyway.
iamachassid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-11-2004, 09:11 PM   #4
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
Re: Hergeshim

Quote:
Originally posted by Jude


what makes a hergesh ridiculous? is there any objective criteria?

Maybe it's al derech: megalgelin z'chus al yedei zakai etc..
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-11-2004, 09:15 PM   #5
LION
Diamond Member
 
LION's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,122
Quote:
Originally posted by iamachassid
translation?
"Every 'Hergish' shows on existence' [or to be more blunt 'yeshis']

(Before anyone takes anything personal, I was not meant to be personal)
__________________
"The Lion's roar"
LION is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-11-2004, 09:20 PM   #6
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
The first sign of a ridiculous hergesh is, when one feels the need to impose it on others, or subject and criticize those that are not zoche to have that hergesh. Which actually fits with Lion's definition...
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-11-2004, 09:22 PM   #7
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Re: Hergeshim

Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
how wary should one be, or by wary do you mean don't do anything we didn't hear from the Rebbeim?
There are plenty things we do that we didn't hear from the Rebbe'im. I am refferring to new philosophies and ... hergeshim.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-11-2004, 09:26 PM   #8
LION
Diamond Member
 
LION's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,122
Quote:
Originally posted by Torah613
The first sign of a ridiculous hergesh is, when one feels the need to impose it on others, or subject and criticize those that are not zoche to have that hergesh. Which actually fits with Lion's definition...
It is actually not mine (the FR? brings it)...
__________________
"The Lion's roar"
LION is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-11-2004, 09:42 PM   #9
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Well, mashpi'im also used to say "Ah hergesh iz ah boich veitog" (a hergesh is a stomach ache)...
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-11-2004, 11:22 PM   #10
poshut
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 264
In today's world all hergeishim are fine, all new inventions are fine, all chasidic "innovations are fine, as long as you state it with a pious face. [...]
poshut is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2004, 12:06 AM   #11
roza
Silver Member
 
roza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 639
women have more hergeshim then men do.
__________________
: .
. .
roza is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2004, 12:18 AM   #12
hishtatchus
Senior Diamond Member
 
hishtatchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,606
Isn't a Chassidishe hergesh considered something worthy?
hishtatchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2004, 09:10 AM   #13
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Of course!
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2004, 03:09 PM   #14
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
Quote:
The first sign of a ridiculous hergesh is, when one feels the need to impose it on others ...etc.
why would that give any indication that the hergesh is ridiculous? sounds more like it indicates the person is critical, controlling etc.
in other words, that may say something about the person's middos but nothing about the hergesh itself

Quote:
Well, mashpi'im also used to say "Ah hergesh iz ah boich veitog" (a hergesh is a stomach ache)...
meaning? how does it fit with "of course - a Chasidishe hergesh is worthy"?

[...]
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2004, 05:58 PM   #15
poshut
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 264
We should all be in the sefirah spirit [...] which highlights the sad state of affairs we're in.
poshut is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2004, 07:48 PM   #16
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Meaning, that sometimes one can come up with something that they think is a great hergesh, but is nothing more than a bellyache...
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2004, 08:01 PM   #17
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
"sometimes" ... when yes, when not?

poshut - you poshut forgot the Rebbe's emphasis on simcha, try this:

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/show...hos+and+simcha

[...]
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2004, 08:06 PM   #18
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
"sometimes" ... when yes, when not?
For that one needs a Chasiidishe hergesh...
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2004, 08:07 PM   #19
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
amusing, yes
but definitely not helpful!
sounds like we're back to - if I like it, I say it's Chasidish, and if I don't like it, I say it's ridiculous or a boich veitog sort of hergesh
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2004, 09:32 PM   #20
poshut
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 264
Who negated simcha?

Anybody?
poshut is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-13-2004, 11:01 AM   #21
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
some girls' schools, when taking the children on a Lag B'Omer outing, have Color War

when my nieces heard this, their reaction was: On Lag B'Omer?!

in other words, during Sefira, when we try to rectify the lo nahagu kavod zeh l'zeh of Rabbi Akiva's talmidim, is this a time to create separations and competition?

this was the hergesh of children
obviously, the adults didn't think of this
if it was pointed out to them, they might say that Color War also needs to be played with Ahavas Yisrael

is this hergesh ridiculous, or is it the Truth "out of the mouths of babes"?

more importantly than dissecting this particular hergesh, we still haven't heard how to tell the difference between legitimate and illegitimate sensitivities
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-13-2004, 11:44 AM   #22
poshut
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 264
Perhaps this is the message in the vort of the Mitteler Rebbe:

We need to make Chasidim wise; Moshiach will make them frum.

Men darf huben seichel; when you have that you don't question and analyze hergeshim.

Otu b'shuftene askinon?

It's sounds like a case of chasid shotah.
poshut is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-13-2004, 11:45 AM   #23
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
sounds like a case of knocking others, not the Rebbe's approach
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-13-2004, 11:46 AM   #24
poshut
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 264
Like I said, men darf huben seichel.
poshut is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-13-2004, 12:14 PM   #25
hishtatchus
Senior Diamond Member
 
hishtatchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,606
Seichel is relative.
hishtatchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com