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Unread 11-11-2010, 09:27 PM   #1
AnshelB
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Confusion about engagement etiquette

I am NOT a Chabad man, although I am Jewish by birth. I found out [that I was adopted]. I found out at the age of 46 (I'm fifty now), that I was born Jewish and raised a secular nothing. I was extremely upset by this. I felt cheated and was angry at all involved. I returned to Judaism and have been attempting to learn all that I can to understand my birth family and my ancestors. I met a woman on board a cruise ship a few years back. We hit it off and realized we both are Jewish. I am a Reform Jew (because that was the Rabbi I was assigned when I was enrolled in my Intro to Judaism class). I attend a Reconstructionist Shul since it is closest to my house. The woman I met on the cruise ship and I became engaged seven months ago. She accepted my ring and afterward stopped communicating. At first I thought she took the ring and ran off with it. Then I learned she is a member of a Chabad shul in Florida. This is where I need your advice. [***] I am confused to why after I gave her an engagement ring, she accepted it, but ceased to communicate. I am new to Judaism and certainly respectful of her status in the Chabad community. After some research I was even more confused. She ate in the same dining facility on the cruise ship as everyone else (it was NOT kosher), has been divorced twice, wore red a lot, and wore pants! I understand that she was forced to go to work after her second divorce, but as a Chabad Jewish woman, she never covered her hair, and never wore a dress or skirt. Bottom line, she was what you all would consider a "Pious Fraud." She accepted my $8,000 ring, but I feel she has cut me off to some extent. I have tried everything. She opens my email, but doesn't reply. She accepts gifts in the mail, but if one bothers her, she refuses it and returns it to sender. She is confusing me. I get mixed messages. Plus, I don't know what I am to do next in order to plan to marry her. I love her very much and I know she loves me. I want to respect her beliefs and her Chabad way of life, even though all of this is new to me. Since she has already accepted my ring, do I need to go to a match maker or make arrangements through my rabbi and her rabbi? My Reconstructionist rabbi is not an Orthodox rabbi, although he is extremely observant. Any help you can give me is needed and deeply appreciated. Confused in Colorado!
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Unread 11-11-2010, 09:37 PM   #2
chossidnistar
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Anshel

imho,if you call her an she does not want to speak to you, just pass, go next
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Unread 11-12-2010, 12:00 AM   #3
AnshelB
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That's that?

She gets to keep the ring and that's that? Why would a Pious woman accept an engagement ring and cease communicating? What about meet, chesed, and kavod? I have done nothing wrong. Shouldn't she give me back the ring? I feel robbed and cheated both financially and emotionally.
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Unread 11-12-2010, 12:35 AM   #4
noahidelaws
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She was not a "Chabad Jewish woman," she was simply a person who had affiliated with a shul run by a Chabad rabbi. The rabbi and the Chabad movement are not to blame for her every action.
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Unread 11-12-2010, 04:40 AM   #5
danzinger
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Her behavior has nothing to do with Chabad etiquette, engagement or otherwise.
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Unread 11-12-2010, 01:38 PM   #6
chossidnistar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnshelB View Post
She gets to keep the ring and that's that? Why would a Pious woman accept an engagement ring and cease communicating? What about meet, chesed, and kavod? I have done nothing wrong. Shouldn't she give me back the ring? I feel robbed and cheated both financially and emotionally.
you can request the ring refund
Maybe she thought that was a just a present and that she can keep
It is better to have to request a refund for a ring now and not a refund for a $ 700.000 house and maybe more later
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Unread 11-12-2010, 03:42 PM   #7
AnshelB
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Help me understand her behavior...

You all are wise and have a lifetime of experience in a Chabad lifestyle. I am just trying to understand where this woman is coming from. I don't care as much about the loss of the ring as I do about potential loss of her as my wife. She told me she loved me from the beginning and now nothing? Is it because I am not a Chabad Jew? Someone please educate me on the rituals or traditions around finding a potential wife and once they accept the ring, what is expected next. Maybe I am expected to 'do' something and I am not doing it. After a woman accepts a ring, what is the waiting period for marriage? I appreciate all of your expert advise. I am new to Judaism and new to learning about her being in a Chabad setting. I have no clue what to do next and what is expected of me. She tells others she loves me, reads my emails, accepts my snail-mail, but won't speak to me on the telephone. I just don't get it.
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Unread 11-13-2010, 02:47 PM   #8
mosheh5769
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Originally Posted by AnshelB View Post
You all are wise and have a lifetime of experience in a Chabad lifestyle. I am just trying to understand where this woman is coming from. I don't care as much about the loss of the ring as I do about potential loss of her as my wife. She told me she loved me from the beginning and now nothing? Is it because I am not a Chabad Jew? Someone please educate me on the rituals or traditions around finding a potential wife and once they accept the ring, what is expected next. Maybe I am expected to 'do' something and I am not doing it. After a woman accepts a ring, what is the waiting period for marriage? I appreciate all of your expert advise. I am new to Judaism and new to learning about her being in a Chabad setting. I have no clue what to do next and what is expected of me. She tells others she loves me, reads my emails, accepts my snail-mail, but won't speak to me on the telephone. I just don't get it.
She's in no way a Chabad woman, as it has been told to you by Noach. This woman attends a Beis Chabad, that's all. If you know where this Beis Chabad is located, go to see her and have a discussion with her. Or go to visit her at her home.
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Unread 11-13-2010, 08:48 PM   #9
chossidnistar
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she is just a "chabad woman" as you can become an instant "chabad man"
just look for a center close to you in www.chabad.org and you become a "chabad man" ,just for showing up a Shabbos or a JLI course
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Unread 11-13-2010, 10:06 PM   #10
AnshelB
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Originally Posted by mosheh5769 View Post
She's in no way a Chabad woman, as it has been told to you by Noach. This woman attends a Beis Chabad, that's all. If you know where this Beis Chabad is located, go to see her and have a discussion with her. Or go to visit her at her home.
What is a Beis Chabad?
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Unread 11-14-2010, 02:07 AM   #11
danzinger
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Her love of you seems to be simply an infatuation that wore off when she got home out of the romantic atmosphere of the cruise. It happens. She is probably embarrassed by her behavior with you on the cruise, which now seems to her to be mere lightheaded infatuation and she is ashamed to admit her feelings.
Once again, this has nothing to do with Chabad engagement etiquette.

Please accept my condolences. As a Chabad Rabbi once said (speaking in Hebrew) to a young woman when she told him of her problems with a young man, "How do you say to fall in love in English?"
She began to reply, "to fall..." and the Rabbi cut off the rest of her words by saying,
"You fell...."
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Unread 11-14-2010, 02:00 PM   #12
Meshulam
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It looks to me like she doesn't want to tell you to go away, because it is difficult to say. Perhaps she is hoping you'll take the hint or lose interest. When a woman makes it that clear that she is not interested in pursuing something with you, to continue to broach the issue may be construed as stalkerish behavior.

However, you probably do have a right to get the ring back. Contacting her for that is probably acceptable, as long as it is clear that you are contacting her solely for that purpose.

But it seems, from your description, that she is making it as clear as she can that she is not interested in a relationship with you - without actually saying those words (as they can be hard to say, even if they are true).

This is not a Chabad issue.
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Unread 11-14-2010, 08:58 PM   #13
Shabbos
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Originally Posted by AnshelB View Post
What is a Beis Chabad?
Beis Chabad = Chabad house
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