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Unread 11-24-2008, 08:21 PM   #1
existwhere?
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Chasan making Kiddush for his Kallah

Is it appropriate for a chassan to make kiddush for himself and his kallah, and then give her the cup? It's not halachically an issue until they're married, but is it inappropriate? And if so, what would be better?
1) Pouring it
2) Putting the cup on the table
3) Having someone else make kiddush for her, assuming that he's not the only 13+ male at the table. (This would be the case if it was all women, because the men had gone to a kinnus, let's say, except for him.)
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Unread 11-24-2008, 08:37 PM   #2
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Obviously there are negiah issues until married, but as for other harchokos such as passing... I was told not to worry about that until after the chupah.

As far as appropriate, I remember when I was engaged several people made it a point to not make kiddush for their kallahs before marriage. It was sort of done half jokingly, but the basic reason was always "why should I make for her, she's not my wife."

As for your 3rd situation, I think that it is very poor planning to have everybody but the chassan leave town. But if there are only women (say she is having a Shabbos meal at his parent's house and his father was niftar), then probably you can solve the problem by one of your first two options or by giving the cup to someone else first or asking someone to bring the cup to the Kallah.

I don't personally see a problem with giving the cup directly to the girl, but if you feel uncomfortable, I think it is entirely appropriate to ask that the chassan not pass you the cup directly.

If this post comes from good news... mazel tov
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Unread 11-24-2008, 09:04 PM   #3
existwhere?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu View Post
I don't personally see a problem with giving the cup directly to the girl, but if you feel uncomfortable, I think it is entirely appropriate to ask that the chassan not pass you the cup directly.

If this post comes from good news... mazel tov
No, I was privately requested to post this.
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Unread 11-25-2008, 09:43 AM   #4
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My crowd is careful that the chosson not make kiddush for the kallah until they are actually married.
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Unread 11-25-2008, 10:40 AM   #5
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Is there a specific reason for being makpid one way or the other?
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Unread 11-25-2008, 12:15 PM   #6
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There are plenty of things thta are "done" that there's actually no mokklor for - or at least I don't know of any.

The 3 fasts for a girl before Bas Mitzvah .. and this. So far.
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Unread 11-25-2008, 12:37 PM   #7
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Hm. Then again, there is no makor to wake up at 9:30 on Shabbat morning, lamrot shesheina b'Shabbat taanug, and then daven at ten. But this is something done today, as well.

This, however, sounds like a better minhag that my example just now. Which is 'your crowd'?
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Unread 11-26-2008, 05:17 PM   #8
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Somw ppl are mapkidim in this b/c this is a maise that they are going to do when they get married, and .what? you did it before? maybe now you don't get married!
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Unread 11-27-2008, 05:17 AM   #9
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Huh? Can you explain that?
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Unread 11-27-2008, 05:59 AM   #10
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I think what chossidnistar is saying along the lines of "if you're close when you should be far, you'll be far when you should be close".
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Unread 11-27-2008, 06:03 AM   #11
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That, I was told, refers to touching specifically. In addition, I was once discussing this point with a friend, who mentioned that this was said in reference to after the marriage itself. V'hameivin yovin.
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Unread 11-27-2008, 06:06 AM   #12
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"Along the lines of". Ok, more specific: (I'm really guessing coz I'm not chossidnistar) if people hold that a chosson only makes kiddush for his kallah after they're married, then they would say "What? You did it before? Maybe now you don't/won't get married!"
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Unread 11-30-2008, 11:56 PM   #13
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He should not be there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by existwhere? View Post
Is it appropriate for a chassan to make kiddush for himself and his kallah, and then give her the cup? It's not halachically an issue until they're married, but is it inappropriate? And if so, what would be better?
1) Pouring it
2) Putting the cup on the table
3) Having someone else make kiddush for her, assuming that he's not the only 13+ male at the table. (This would be the case if it was all women, because the men had gone to a kinnus, let's say, except for him.)
If all the men went to the Kinus, he should not be in the house with his Kallah and the women in the first place!!
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Unread 12-01-2008, 12:50 AM   #14
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Which is precisely what I don't understand. Let's leave it to chossidnistar to explain himself; I believe he can do so the best.
the idea that some ppl have is not to take things for granted
the Rabbi says a blessing of kiddushin, and the Chatan and Kalla drink wine. The meaning of it is sanctification of man and woman to each other. It is comparable to the Kiddush blessing on Shabbos, in which we drink wine to sanctify the Shabbos
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Unread 12-01-2008, 01:29 AM   #15
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So it's comparable to Moishy and Sara, aged five and four, playing 'chasuna' with a [2.50 shekel] ring, in your opinion. No?
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Unread 12-01-2008, 02:31 AM   #16
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It's NOT the seder in Lubavitch for a engeged Chosson to make kiddush for his kalla.
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Unread 12-01-2008, 01:55 PM   #17
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I don't understand why 'I miss you' is inapprorpriate. And if one does something or unusually thoughtful, either while dating or sometime during the engagement, when they don't usually see each other, 'That was incredibly thoughtful/sweet/etc of you' is not so horrid.
[...]
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Unread 12-02-2008, 08:12 AM   #18
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I tend to agree with MT on that one.

And I question anyone who makes a blanket statement that you must be machmir as much as possible. In any case, that is a meaningless statement - what's called machmir and what's called silly? Machmir as much as possible would be not seeing each other or communicating in any way after the engagement until the kabolos ponim.
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Unread 12-02-2008, 08:38 AM   #19
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This is true, as well, and this thread contradicts the minhag not to see each other in its very title.
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Unread 12-02-2008, 09:43 AM   #20
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We should be happy that the chosson ad kallah at least see each other during the engagement; some do not. Much less eat together.
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Unread 12-02-2008, 12:24 PM   #21
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Actually, I was under the impression that minhag Chabad* is that they don't see each other.

*חוץ ממקרים חריגים
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Unread 12-02-2008, 03:31 PM   #22
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It's common to eat together on Shabbos.
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Unread 12-02-2008, 04:35 PM   #23
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Even in cases where they don't see each other until the wedding? How interesting and oxymoronic.
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Unread 12-02-2008, 08:07 PM   #24
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Some do and some don't. It depends on the situation. I know people who had answers to meet their kallah's once a week (- yes, chassidishe people), and there are printed answers (IIRC) that discourage it [no, I will not say what I did...].

Last edited by Torah613; 12-03-2008 at 09:39 PM.
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Unread 12-03-2008, 01:20 AM   #25
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I have a friend (a Lubavitcher) who told his Kalla by the Lechaim, "I'll see you by the Chuppa"...
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