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Unread 07-11-2003, 08:43 AM   #1
Yankel Nosson
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Thumbs up Help encourage more Jewish babies!

American Agudah "Baby-Bonus" Fund Established For Israel
by Yated Ne'eman Staff

Agudath Israel of America has announced the creation of a special fund aimed at assisting families with children.

On the first of July, the one-time-per-child grant of NIS 1354 that has been provided to Israeli parents for decades was cut to NIS 406 for each child after a couple's first. The grant served to signal the importance of population growth and also provided families with a modest sum to assist them as they care for a newborn.

With the new "baby bonus" reduction, however, not only has the baby-friendly message been curtailed but the severe economic pressures being felt by Israeli families, who will soon be saddled with severe reductions in their monthly per- child allowances, has been compounded.

To help assist Jewish families suffering from the reduction, Rabbi Shmuel Bloom, executive vice president of Agudath Israel of America, announced the creation of the special Agudath Israel fund, which will provide at least Israel's more needy Jewish parents with the traditional one-time grant for each new child despite the budget cut.

Rabbi Bloom expressed hope that the larger American Jewish community will also see a role for itself in helping alleviate the economic strain being felt by Israeli families.

"The realization of how important Jewish children are to the Jewish future is something that needs to be faced by every Jewish community -- including the American one," he says, noting further that "if the preliminary reports of the National Jewish Population Survey 2000 are any indication, Jewish America is shrinking."

"But it is particularly important in Israel," he stresses, "and we must all do everything we can to help Jews there whose lives reflect that realization."

What is more, "at a time when Israel is threatened in an overt way by those who would seek to make the Middle East Judenrein, we must do all we can to not only help those in need but to help ensure a vibrant Jewish future there."

Rabbi Bloom reached out to the United Jewish Communities, the general American Jewish community's major philanthropic arm, suggesting that it also might want to help fill the budget cut gap.

In a letter to the UJC's President and Chief Executive Officer, Stephen H. Hoffman, Rabbi Bloom noted that the approximately $13 million the Israeli government is saving by the curtailing of the new-child grant is "is a sizable sum, to be sure. But we feel it is not worth the toll that it will take on the Jewish future in Israel."

"I expect our constituents to react generously on behalf of [Agudath Israel's] fund," he continued. "But I do not entertain the likelihood that our efforts can provide the no- longer-offered grants to all the Jewish parents who need them.

"And so I write you to invite the UJC to consider a special grant, to help ensure that all new Jewish parents in Israel who have need of this one-time allowance for feeding and clothing their new Jewish arrivals receive it."


http://www.shemayisrael.com/chareidi/BLK63aaguda.htm
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Unread 07-11-2003, 12:58 PM   #2
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how about if they worked on amending Mihu Yehudi and got rid of the goyim draining Israel's finances and then all the money going to Ukrainian anti-Semites living in Israel could go to Jews

in addition, how about if they worked on publicizing the government's giving millions to Arabs and got the country to insist on the money going to Jews
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Unread 07-11-2003, 01:13 PM   #3
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What does Mihu Yehudi have to do with it? Did you ever listen to the Rebbe's sichos about Mihu Yehudi? The Rebbe spoke about making sure that the "conversion" in the Law of Return is a Halachic Conversion.

These goyim come to Israel based an ANOTHER CLAUSE in the Law Of Return, that allows NON JEWISH Relatives of Jews to come to Israel. What does it have to do with each other?

Last edited by rebayzl; 07-11-2003 at 01:59 PM.
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Unread 07-11-2003, 01:21 PM   #4
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I'm sure nothing at all.
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Unread 07-11-2003, 03:02 PM   #5
Yankel Nosson
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
how about if they worked on amending Mihu Yehudi and got rid of the goyim draining Israel's finances and then all the money going to Ukrainian anti-Semites living in Israel could go to Jews

in addition, how about if they worked on publicizing the government's giving millions to Arabs and got the country to insist on the money going to Jews
Positive, optimistic, joyous = Chassidus
Negative, pessimistic, grim = ????????

Why?
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Unread 07-11-2003, 03:59 PM   #6
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Rebbe:

The [Isreali] goverment spends 30.00 thousand dollars for a family who makes Aliya, and spends, I dont know what sum, to discourage big families....The first thing you have to accomplish, that since the goverment gives money for big families, they should increase the amount.

Sadugere Rebbe:

It will be wise that those who are apointed to disburse the money, should be religous people and not the Goverment, since they will also give to the Arabs

Rebbe:

If they will discrimnate, they would scream immediatly that they are racists (this argument you definitly heard already)

SR:

So, they should only increase funds for the religous community.

Rebbe:

I dont think it will pass, if you will talk about "Yishuv Haolom" it will be accepted by the goverment

SR:

But also the Arabas will recieve the funds!

Rebbe:

For this, there is nothing we can do, they recieve anyhow. A few years ago there the "Misrad hapnim" (who is occupied by the religous) bragged that in the Old city...Arab woman wait on line to recieve the funds for big families! When they approached me, why I am not seperating between Arabs and Jews?

I replied: A Ben Noach is obligated on "Losheves Yetzoreh" and against murder which is one of the 7 noah laws and we have to see to that, that they should observe them, and in the idea of "Tomos Nafshi im Plishtim" - I dont believe in.


SR:

Aparently, the idea of "Habaa Le'horgoch, Haskem Le' horgo, applies here, and the situation with the Arabs is very serious and dangerous, so it doesnt pay, to give them money to induce them having more childern.

Rebbe: But this doesnt exempt them from any of the 7 nohaidelaws, and doesnt exempt any Jew from his obligation to encourage the Non Jew to observe them.

(Betzel Hachochma, p, 96-97)

The Rebbe's position is crystal clear, unlike the knowers of the Rebbe's position on their own.

Last edited by masbir; 07-11-2003 at 04:03 PM.
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Unread 07-11-2003, 05:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by masbir
Betzel Hachochma
Can you tell a little bit about this sefer?
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Unread 07-11-2003, 05:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yankel Nosson

Can you tell a little bit about this sefer?
it was pubished by kollel avrechim chabad of nachalat har chabad in 5747.
its a collection of the rebbe's discussions with gedolei yisroel at different occasions.
check it out!
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Anyone else?........

Last edited by Chabad-Yudele; 07-11-2003 at 07:40 PM.
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Unread 07-11-2003, 05:38 PM   #9
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ah, so you're in favor of the millions going to fund the terrorist infrastructure, and for weapons for the P.A., and to pay the families of suicide bombers, and to pay for a Wall, and to pay for ...

Y.N. - have you read anything the Rebbe said about Eretz Yisrael on this subject? Was the Rebbe cheerful about it or did he cry and scream and plead and warn?

and re Mihu Yehudi - there are two categories - those who are goyim who are coming in as Jews, and gentile relatives who come in as gentiles

the rabbonim today are decrying the fact that thousands of goyim are coming in to the country falsely, as Jews, as the Rebbe warned would happen (and the Rebbe predicted the grim results)
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Unread 07-12-2003, 10:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
"ah, so you're in favor of the millions going to fund the terrorist infrastructure, and for weapons for the P.A., and to pay the families of suicide bombers, and to pay for a Wall, and to pay for ..."
Aparently, the idea of "Habaa Le'horgoch, Haskem Le' horgo,
Quote:
applies here, and the situation with the Arabs is very serious and dangerous, so it doesnt pay, to give them money to induce them having more childern.

Rebbe: But this doesnt exempt them from any of the 7 nohaidelaws, and doesnt exempt any Jew from his obligation to encourage the Non Jew to observe them.
Thats the Rebbe who is in favor, I didnt know you are against the Rebbe.
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Unread 07-12-2003, 10:35 PM   #11
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You didn't know? Where have you been all this time?
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Unread 07-13-2003, 02:57 PM   #12
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interesting how these two posters think the Rebbe is in favor of funding terrorists ... learn something new every day
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Unread 07-13-2003, 06:20 PM   #13
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Jude, you surely don't have a garden. Because if you did, you would certainly starve your roses and daisies of water out of fear that in the process of watering them you might, c"v, give chiyus to the weeds!

FAKERT!
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Unread 07-13-2003, 06:30 PM   #14
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what touching imagery! such a positive message too
did you learn that from the Rebbe?
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Unread 07-13-2003, 07:25 PM   #15
Yankel Nosson
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Jude, re-read your own Post #2 in light of Post #6, and perhaps it will be clear.
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Unread 07-13-2003, 09:33 PM   #16
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Interesting, that i didnt say anything just qouted the Sicha, and am accused of thinking that the Rebbe is thinking of funding terrorists, as anyone who can read can see for himself, that the Rebbe said the exact opposite, that you are not allowed to give any funds to Arabs they should have more children, you are allowed to support Arabs to observe Losheves Yetzora, you have to follow Sadugere Rebbes advice, how some one can think I meant otherwis is real mystery to me.

We have the erudite scholars deep understandins in the Sichas and the Rebbes view, and that is the Bottom line.
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Unread 07-13-2003, 09:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude

and re Mihu Yehudi - there are two categories - those who are goyim who are coming in as Jews, and gentile relatives who come in as gentiles

the rabbonim today are decrying the fact that thousands of goyim are coming in to the country falsely, as Jews, as the Rebbe warned would happen (and the Rebbe predicted the grim results)
The Rebbe spoke about Giyur Ka'halacha. That is the record. Please post anything else.
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Unread 07-14-2003, 11:09 AM   #18
Jude
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Quote:
i didnt say anything just qouted the Sicha
even after you edited it, it's still not just the sicha ...

YN it was quite clear before
selective positivity messages ... fear of tackling the others apparently
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Unread 07-14-2003, 11:31 AM   #19
Yankel Nosson
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
YN it was quite clear before
selective positivity messages ... fear of tackling the others apparently
S I G H

I've seen this with you before Jude, your critical eye in action, like the finest congressmen.

* Someone begins an initiative to work with Russians, do you say "what about all the native-born Jews without Yiddishkeit, how about working with them?"

* Another initiative to disseminate the sheva mitzvos, do you say "we Jews don't have enough problems, how about spreading Yiddishkeit to Yidden?"

* A different initiative to offer classes to the elderly, will you say "how about working with children, isn't that also important?!"


Instead of griping about what you feel the Agudah doesn't do, be glad for what they are doing. Every oar in the water helps the boat along, whether it is being rowed with 100% effort or 10%. "Every little bit helps."


BTW, your argument about not funding the Arabs, besides being refuted by the Rebbe's statements (as if that wasn't enough), is like the discussion between the chosid and the Brisker. The Brisker says he davens quickly in order to be sure that his yetzer hora has no chance to introduce machshovas zaros into his tefila. The chosid replies that he davens slowly inthe hope that maybe he'll manage even one sincere tefila in his davening.


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Unread 07-14-2003, 12:14 PM   #20
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I've seen this with you numerous times YN
the forum is full of hate (forget about criticism) and the most disgusting lishonos used on rabbonim, mashpiim, and other posters, but we don't hear from you
you reserve your critical remarks for me
as I said, apparently you're afraid to start up with the others

and about the Rebbe, so you think my comments are refuted by the Rebbe's statements, so that you too think the Rebbe is in favor of funding terrorism (as opposed to money per child which is what the Rebbe is actually talking about) ...

amazing that you see that in the Rebbe's words
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Unread 07-14-2003, 03:05 PM   #21
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This is what Jude wrote:

"in addition, how about if they worked on publicizing the government's giving millions to Arabs and got the country to insist on the money going to Jews


THis is what I wrote from the Rebbe which refutes her view:

"But also the Arabas will recieve the funds!

Rebbe:

For this, there is nothing we can do, they recieve anyhow. A few years ago there the "Misrad hapnim" (who is occupied by the religous) bragged that in the Old city...Arab woman wait on line to recieve the funds for big families! When they approached me, why I am not seperating between Arabs and Jews?

I replied: A Ben Noach is obligated on "Losheves Yetzoreh" and against murder which is one of the 7 noah laws and we have to see to that, that they should observe them, and in the idea of "Tomos Nafshi im Plishtim" - I dont believe in"

How did she react?

She made it as if I said the Rebbe thinks we need to support Terrorists. so its so absurd that the Rebbe never meant and I am deranged or what.

When confronted, she charactristcly, distorts and dissembles, as if someone said that this is what the Rebbe said etc.
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Unread 07-14-2003, 03:39 PM   #22
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"Losheves Yetzoreh"
"Tomos Nafshi im Plishtim"

Could you translate these things, because I don't understand what they mean. Thank you so much!
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Unread 07-14-2003, 04:17 PM   #23
masbir
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Losheves Yetzoreh"= the world was created for settling


"Tomos Nafshi im Plishtim = Biblical phrase by Samson: Let my soul die with the philsitines.
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Unread 07-14-2003, 04:43 PM   #24
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when you (YN) explained what you thought the difference is between deveikus and hiskashrus, masbir showed you how you were mistaken. Note, there were no value judgements about you there. He was just interested in being masbir the issue.
In this thread, it's not about the issue at all. Note the lie about "I just quoted the sicha." Just the sicha? The Rebbe's sicha did not contain value judgements about me.
Masbir's sole purpose here (no mind-reading on my part, just noting that he did not "just" quote a sicha) is to defame me. And he does it in post after post.
And this is why he tripped up in this thread and hasn't backed down since. My original post was not about the government's stipends to families with many children, both Jews and Arabs, which is what the sicha is about. The quoted sicha has nothing to do with this thread.

My post expressed my frustration with frum groups who ignored the Rebbe on many critical issues, who are now trying to make up for the great damage they did, but they aren't making up for it by announcing "chatasi" and doing something to undo the damage. They're continuing with their same old policies. And why did you find it necessary to start a thread to show how wonderful Aguda is, when this is ChabadTalk and the gedolim who set policy for Aguda, have not supported the Rebbe (understatement)?

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/show...2533#post42533
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