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Unread 10-27-2011, 08:50 AM   #9
Torah613 Elder!
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Originally Posted by Paper View Post
These Mekoiros are precisely some of the sources of my lack of clarity on the matter (there are also some Poiskim who argue on whether or not to do other things in Chazoras Hashatz just like in Shmoneh Esrei).
I brought them for "fun", as I don't think they are really relevant. I think svoro (like I wrote) is the key here.
As to arguments in the poskim etc. - we would have to examine them one by one and see why that is.
Regarding the Kesef Mishna, maybe this is why he doesn't bring the din of 3 steps before any Shmoneh Esrei in his Shulchan Aruch, as he holds like the Rambam the way he understands him (the Rama brings it).
If so, we must say that Chazoras Hashatz is indeed like regular SE in this regard Lishitasoi.
Or maybe he doesn't hold of the din for a different reason (the same reason why the Rambam doesn't bring it anywhere) and perhaps even Chazoras Hashatz and regular SE would have been dissimilar regarding this case according to him.
That was precisely my point: The minhog/din of 3 steps is a רוקח, which is good to do (טוב לחוש לדבריו, like the AR writes). Nothing to do with the Rambam or the KM who never bring it, therefore according to them there would not be any reason to do them before חזרת הש"ץ, though nonetheless the KM writes that concerning חזרת הש"ץ the minhog is to go forward where he stood the first SE (not like משמעות הרמב"ם). There is no reason to assume (according to them) that a regular SE needs 3 steps beforehand. However, we - who hold of this minhog, would lichora do it, as a מילתא בטעמא.

We find a possible indication of not necessarily applying the din to both equally in the Alter Rebbe's SA 105:1, where the Alter Rebbe seems to say that sometimes you don't have to go forward 3 steps before SE.
But why may one do SE #2 where he stepped back into from his first SE when it clearly states otherwise in 95:2?

Possibly he is talking about someone who doesn't want to listen to the encouragement but not flat out Halacha in 95:2 (and with 123:4).
Yes, that is what I think it means, and why I brought it. There may be any number of reasons why (this time) he doesn't what to do the 3 steps, since it is not clear-cut halacha anyway (maybe his legs hurt...).
Perhaps the term "דבר שצריך לעשות" has to do with it (I'm not sure what it refers to and possibly intends to exclude).

Where Tashlumin (it's still an obligation and mitzvah (108:1, 11) though, just not bizmana, so I don't know how it would be more similar to any other Tfila where you don't have to do 3 steps before,) and Musaf (108:10?) and (maybe even also) Chazoras Hashatz (he doesn't have to do it,) are somehow different in nature and therefore in reasoning.

I'm not clear with the meaning of 95:2 in general.
For fun - see the source in רוקח inside - brought in דרכי משה...
Thank you for being מעורר the inyan.
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