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-   -   Candidates For Moshiach (http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=7055)

magdiel 05-07-2006 09:11 PM

Candidates For Moshiach
 
Who is alive today who would be considered a potential candidate for Moshaich (not including the Rebbe)? All opinions are welcome, but I am looking for specific individuals to be named, not generic descriptions.

chossidnistar 05-07-2006 09:22 PM

magdy, r u a descendant ofthe House of David ?

Torah613 05-07-2006 09:29 PM

What would be the point?

Maskil 05-07-2006 09:32 PM

If the qualifications are limited to those ideals considered necessary by Chabad Chassidus, (putting to the side any 'Dor Shvii' issues,) Moshiach would have to be someone who is comfortable with the concept of Hafotzas Mayanos HaBaal Shem Tov. That wouldn't necessarily mean he has to be an expert himself. But if Moshiach told the Besht that he would come K'sheyafutzu...and everyone could do yichudim, then it stands to reason that Moshiach would have to be someone who approves of the Mayanos Habesht!

It should also be mentioned that Moshiach does not have to be the biggest Talmid Chochom or Lamdan in the world. The Rambam says he has to be Hogeh BaTorah, not the brightest Rosh Yeshiva around. Bar Kochba was not one of the Tannaim quoted in Mishnayos or Beraysos. Apparently, R'Akiva was a bigger Talmid Chochom than the man he considered to be B'Chezkas Moshiach. That should open the field wide, and stop stam people from limiting their thinking about Chief Rabbis, Roshei Yeshiva and Admorim. It might be a frum military leader, or stam a learned balebos who will take upon himself the task when the time comes.

Of course, it never hurts to point out that the Rebbe himself said that there is no point in even dealing with this issue.

chossidnistar 05-07-2006 09:38 PM

IMH opinion ,only the Rebbe can be Moshiach, I dunno how, not proof halachalik, but my personal ergesh

if u want a name for someone alive
consider

R Avraham Shemtov

Torah613 05-07-2006 09:40 PM

[QUOTE=chossidnistar]IMH opinion ,only the Rebbe can be Moshiach, I dunno how, not proof halachalik, but my personal ergesh

if u want a name for someone alive
consider

R Avraham Shemtov[/QUOTE]:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :twolchai: :twolchai: :lchaim: :lchaim:

DW Duke 05-07-2006 09:46 PM

[quote=magdiel]Who is alive today who would be considered a potential candidate for Moshaich (not including the Rebbe)? All opinions are welcome, but I am looking for specific individuals to be named, not generic descriptions.[/quote]

Some people are supporting Rabbi Yosef Dayan, who is also an attorney and a member of the Sanhedrin. He participated in a ceremony to place a death curse on Sharon during the Disengagement. He is a male line descendant of King David but some say he is too controversial. He is the author of Throne and Crown and one of the founders of the Lishkat HaGazit School of Government in Israel. His supporters refer to him as Prince Yosef.

I am not saying I believe he is Moshiach or even a candidate, but he does have supporters.

believer 05-07-2006 09:57 PM

PICK ME! PICK ME! i'll be a good candidate. :tongue:

Meshulam 05-07-2006 10:11 PM

I think that the Tosher Rebbe is realted to the Maharal, who we have already determined was from the line of Dovid. He is certainly a Tzaddik, and he has much influence in the Chassidic world, especially Montreal. While we're playing silly games with no toeles, I thought I would throw that in.

Though I think Magdiel's point (or what I am assuming is his point) is well taken: If you take the Rebbe out of the picture (chas v'shalom), the conversation about who Moshiach could be sort of flounders for lack of an obvious candidate (or any candidate, other than, as I have indicated, the Tosher Rebbe, who a Vizhnitz friend of mine once told me was probably the leader of the generation. Incidentally, in the same conversation, he told me he thought that the Lubavitcher Rebbe was probably Moshiach).

Chabadnika 05-07-2006 10:18 PM

I don't think Moshiach Tzidkeinu is an attorney. :)

Meshulam 05-07-2006 10:20 PM

More people than DW will be offended by that notion. :-)

DW Duke 05-07-2006 10:22 PM

[quote=Meshulam]I think that the Tosher Rebbe is realted to the Maharal, who we have already determined was from the line of Dovid. He is certainly a Tzaddik, and he has much influence in the Chassidic world, especially Montreal. While we're playing silly games with no toeles, I thought I would throw that in.

Though I think Magdiel's point (or what I am assuming is his point) is well taken: If you take the Rebbe out of the picture (chas v'shalom), the conversation about who Moshiach could be sort of flounders for lack of an obvious candidate (or any candidate, other than, as I have indicated, the Tosher Rebbe, who a Vizhnitz friend of mine once told me was probably the leader of the generation. Incidentally, in the same conversation, he told me he thought that the Lubavitcher Rebbe was probably Moshiach).[/quote]

I think it is true that it is almost pointless to speculate about this because Moshiach may turn out to be someone who will be an unknown, or known in only a limited circle, and suddenly arise very quickly. Or he could be someone already known but unsuspected until suddenly it becomes apparent. For all we know he could be driving a cab in Brooklyn while working his way through school. :eek: Next time you get into a cab, look for a yarmulke. :tongue:

magdiel 05-07-2006 10:27 PM

[QUOTE=Torah613]:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :twolchai: :twolchai: :lchaim: :lchaim:[/QUOTE]
Taryag, are you AS or related to him? why the lechayims?

why 05-07-2006 10:29 PM

Aside from The Rebbe you can't point to anyone who fits the Rambam's criteria for a maybe Moshiach.
As Meshulam pointed out - I think that's what Magiel is trying to show.
So far I see no names brought up that fit.:snide:

magdiel 05-07-2006 10:35 PM

[QUOTE=Meshulam]I think that the Tosher Rebbe is realted to the Maharal, who we have already determined was from the line of Dovid. He is certainly a Tzaddik, and he has much influence in the Chassidic world, especially Montreal. While we're playing silly games with no toeles, I thought I would throw that in.

Though I think Magdiel's point (or what I am assuming is his point) is well taken: If you take the Rebbe out of the picture (chas v'shalom), the conversation about who Moshiach could be sort of flounders for lack of an obvious candidate (or any candidate, other than, as I have indicated, the Tosher Rebbe, who a Vizhnitz friend of mine once told me was probably the leader of the generation. Incidentally, in the same conversation, he told me he thought that the Lubavitcher Rebbe was probably Moshiach).[/QUOTE]
Meshulam; you read my mind; also I agree that the Toshe Rebbe,zol guzunt zein, is probably the most likely candidate (if not the Rebbe).
This reminds me of Shabbos 9 Tammuz 5754, when I told a Shliach that it looks like its over. He asked me, if its over, to name a candidate; I said Klausenberger Rebbe; After Shabbos, we heard about the Histalkus. I thought it was ironic.
They said at his levaya, that the last Gemara he learned was the one in Sanhedrin, about daf lamed daled or so, when it talks about the Nosi line in Eretz yisroel ending before Moshaich comes ( the implication being that The Rebbe was nosi in chutz leoretz).

DW Duke 05-07-2006 10:38 PM

[quote=why]Aside from The Rebbe you can't point to anyone who fits the Rambam's criteria for a maybe Moshiach.
As Meshulam pointed out - I think that's what Magiel is trying to show.
So far I see no names brought up that fit.:snide:[/quote]

Of course, the Rebbe didn't complete the required tasks either. Moshiach could well be alive today and working toward his goal but has not yet fully begun and hence is not yet revealed. Lets talk after the bird flu pandemic hits to see if he has by then emerged. ;)

chossidnistar 05-07-2006 10:38 PM

[quote=magdiel]Taryag, are you AS or related to him? why the lechayims?[/quote]

I dunno what Taryag is going to tell u

What I can tell you is , is that if Moshiach is a Lubavither(cannot be someone else)

Number 1 the Rebbe (has all the numbers

Only other candidate possibility :Rabbi AVraham Shemtov

magdiel 05-07-2006 10:42 PM

[QUOTE=chossidnistar]magdy, r u a descendant ofthe House of David ?[/QUOTE]
If nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve.:smile: All of us are Moshiach in microcosm, since we are all a spark of the general yechidah vested in Moshiach, but it seems to me that Moshiach must be a person who is in the public eye to some degree not an anonymous person, as all of the examples we can think of, Ohr Hachayim, Arizal, Maharal, the Rebbeim, were all public figures.

magdiel 05-07-2006 10:45 PM

[QUOTE=chossidnistar]I dunno what Taryag is going to tell u

What I can tell you is , is that if Moshiach is a Lubavither(cannot be someone else)

Number 1 the Rebbe (has all the numbers

Only other candidate possibility :Rabbi AVraham Shemtov[/QUOTE]
Why not Rabbi Heller? or RYK? or Rabbi Majeski? Or R Volpo, except I think he is a Levi; R Cunin?

magdiel 05-07-2006 10:48 PM

[QUOTE=DW Duke]Of course, the Rebbe didn't complete the required tasks either. Moshiach could well be alive today and working toward his goal but has not yet fully begun and hence is not yet revealed. Lets talk after the bird flu pandemic hits to see if he has by then emerged. ;)[/QUOTE]
DWD, you hit a goal as CN would say. CH V to say there shoul be an epidemic, but that reminds me; Birds fly and Moshaich is coming on the Clouds so I guess there will be plenty of birds around.:smile:

why 05-07-2006 10:48 PM

[QUOTE=chossidnistar]Only other candidate possibility: Rabbi Avraham Shemtov[/QUOTE]
Whats with you and R' Shemtov??? (Is he even a Dovid descendant?)
Why do you think he'd be worthy???! Or are you joking?

magdiel 05-07-2006 10:51 PM

[QUOTE=Chabadnika]I don't think Moshiach Tzidkeinu is an attorney. :)[/QUOTE]
So I guess I'll haveto take Nat Lewin off the list?:smile:

why 05-07-2006 10:53 PM

[QUOTE=magdiel]So I guess I'll haveto take Nat Lewin off the list?:smile:[/QUOTE]
Oh well.

magdiel 05-07-2006 10:55 PM

[QUOTE=DW Duke]Some people are supporting Rabbi Yosef Dayan, who is also an attorney and a member of the Sanhedrin. He participated in a ceremony to place a death curse on Sharon during the Disengagement. He is a male line descendant of King David but some say he is too controversial. He is the author of Throne and Crown and one of the founders of the Lishkat HaGazit School of Government in Israel. His supporters refer to him as Prince Yosef.

I am not saying I believe he is Moshiach or even a candidate, but he does have supporters.[/QUOTE]
DWD, he has three strikes already; 1. attorney;2. He cursed a Jew; 3. He is a member of the Sanhedrin; I think that would disqualify him.

DW Duke 05-07-2006 10:56 PM

[quote=magdiel]If nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve.:smile: All of us are Moshiach in microcosm, since we are all a spark of the general yechidah vested in Moshiach, but it seems to me that Moshiach must be a person who is in the public eye to some degree not an anonymous person, as all of the examples we can think of, Ohr Hachayim, Arizal, Maharal, the Rebbeim, were all public figures.[/quote]

Yes, eventually he will have to be in the public eye to fulfill his obligations. Any of the Rebbes, or a male member of their families, descended from the Maharal could be a candidate as could the descendants of the exhilarchs etc.


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