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View Full Version : Who is Chaim Eliezer "Bichovsky"


Kapote
05-06-2003, 08:47 AM
Kehos has a sefer called "Kisvay Chaim Eliezer "Bichovsky"".
Who is he? I see that he published various lesser known chabadish sefarim but who was he? Why did they publish
a book of his "chiddushim" and are the vorts on the same level as Reb Hillel and Reb Izak or less or ???

Torah613
05-06-2003, 09:06 AM
He was the first to publish Derech Mitzvoscho and Ohr Torah of the TT (on Breishis - 2 v's).
The printing of his writings was encouraged by the Rebbe.
His haoros are incorporated in the hasofos of Likutei Torah.
He was not a "Lubavitch" chosid - he belonged to one of the other Chabad branches.

Hayitzchaki
05-06-2003, 09:11 AM
He was a "choker" (a chasidishe one) a Chasid of Kapust, and his works are not his "chiddushim" but things that he heard. No comparison with R' Aizik and R' Hillel...

Torah613
05-06-2003, 09:13 AM
Many of the things in the abovementioned sefer are his own.

Kapote
05-07-2003, 03:02 PM
so its like some guy putting his comments in Haaros U Biurim into a book? a stam yid?

yanqui
05-07-2003, 03:56 PM
If he was a chasid of Kopust (despite the low opinion of many in the older generation of Chabad for the Kopuster branch) he may well have intelligent stuff to say about Chabad ideas.

Like it or not, every other generation or so there has been a succession controversy in Chabad. In the second generation, it was between the Mittler Rebbe as the son of the Alter Rebbe, and R' Aharon Halevy Horowitz of Starosselye, the "closest talmid" of the Alter Rebbe. Both of them were chozrim of the Alter Rebbe. The movement split in those days, and there was a Starosselye branch and a Lubavitch branch, but the Starosselye branch withered after a generation or two, and the followers grafted back onto the main Lubavitch trunk.

Two generations later, the children of the Tzemach Tzedek had a conflict over who would lead the movement. The Rebbe Maharash took the nesius in Lubavitch, while some went to follow Reb Yehuda Leib, his brother, in Kopust. R' YL was niftar in a year or two, and then some other brothers took the seat of Kopust, but after they ran out of brothers, they too rejoined the mainstream.

Then, of course, there was the succession question in the seventh generation, which seems to have been resolved far more amicably - there wasn't a separate chassidus to spring up around R' Shmaryahu Gourary.

So there have been other Chabad branches that produced serious Chasidim. It's not just "a stam yid" "putting his comments in HuB into a book", particularly if the Rebbe encouraged the publication of his writings.

See, e.g. "Leadership in the Habad Movement: A Critical Evaluation of Habad Leadership, History, and Succession: With Particular Emphasis on Menahem Mendel Schneerson"
by Avrum M. Ehrlich, and one of his sources "Beit Rebbe", by Hielman (translation forthcoming, but not soon, according to the translator).

ChilinInCali
05-07-2003, 07:45 PM
The Rebbe in a sicha in nun beis reffered to Kopuster Admorim as Admorei Chabad.

Kapote
05-08-2003, 10:00 AM
"Leadership in the Habad Movement: A Critical Evaluation of Habad Leadership, History, and Succession: With Particular Emphasis on Menahem Mendel Schneerson"

Who is AE?

rebayzl
05-08-2003, 10:30 AM
He is trouble.

Chabad Friend
05-08-2003, 10:40 AM
It is in this way that Rebayzl returns to the forum!

Boruch Habo B'Sheim Hashem.

I hope you stick around and enhance the forum with posts that are more verbose than this one, as was your custom in days of old.

The forum has suffered in your absence.
Welcome back.

Gevurah
05-08-2003, 12:18 PM
Yes really Rebayzl..... I do not have time to research what you know already......

RebYid
05-08-2003, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by rebayzl
He is trouble.


C'mon, you don't take AE seriously, so you??

Chabad Friend
05-08-2003, 10:49 PM
Why is he trouble? Does he bring up things you don't want to hear? It's not YOUR style to be bothered by that.

rebayzl
05-08-2003, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by RebYid



C'mon, you don't take AE seriously, so you??

I dont. I just think his book is a bunch of rubbish, and he himself is a lost soul who is clueless and being manipulated by some people. Besides, he is officially not a frum person.

Chabad Friend
05-08-2003, 11:48 PM
rubbish?
How does one become an "official" frum person? Is there a website?

rebayzl
05-08-2003, 11:55 PM
oh, please. the book is extremely poorly researched. As for "officially" I mean to say that he doesnt even consider himself frum.

Chabad Friend
05-09-2003, 12:13 AM
I have only browsed through the book, so I cannot comment about the research.

I can say one thing: Many people are so thirsty for the real story behind so much that the establishment covers up or lies about (i.e. Chaim Dalfin claims in one of his books that the FR mamosh appointed the Rebbe as his succeesor!), that they will take anything that even claims some basic research. Such as knowledge of R'Yoel's diaries from Yud.

Kapote
05-09-2003, 08:14 AM
Chaim Dalfin claims in one of his books that the FR mamosh appointed the Rebbe as his succeesor

book and page please...never saw...


..the book is extremely poorly researched

I glanced at the free pages on amazon and it is gibberishlike.

The Rebbe in a sicha in nun beis reffered to Kopuster Admorim as Admorei Chabad.

where?


particularly if the Rebbe encouraged the publication of his writings.

as a kehos sefer unlike say the case of Rav Ginsburgh of Gal Einai

Chabad Friend
05-09-2003, 08:24 AM
It was three years ago, and with his dozens of book(let)s, it's hard to remember. But I'll say that I think it was the book that lists the Biographies and missions of all the Rebbeim.

I don't remember the name of it.

Gevurah
11-24-2004, 01:08 PM
The printing of his writings was encouraged by the Rebbe.

document this please.

donny
11-24-2004, 02:08 PM
Rebayzl tis great to have you back! :twolchai:

Avodas Avoda
11-24-2004, 02:49 PM
document this please.

I'm no historian, but I heard Rabbi Seligson say b'ferush that the Rebbe encouraged the printing of Chabad seforim that weren't written by the Rebbeim. Rabbi Seligson specifically referred to Rov Hillel, Rov Aharon of Starostyle, and several of the others. He didn't mention this one specifically when I heard him, but m'stama it is included. According to Rabbi Seligson, the Rebbe specifically encouraged Kehos to print these seforim, and for them even to be learned to a limited extent. (That is, seforim that are Chabad seforim, but either not written by Rebeim, like Rov Hillel's Pelach HaRimon, or non-Lubavitch Seforim like Rov Aharon's Avodas HaLevi or Shar HaYichud).

If we don't publish them, who will? They're holy Torah (specifically, they're Chabad Torah).

I'll add to what Yanqui said: If he was a Chosid of Kopust, and there's already some inkling that its lomdish, then absolutely it contains intelligent stuff about Chabad Chasidus!

Torah613
11-24-2004, 03:18 PM
document this please.So writes R' Berel Levin in his book "avodas hakodesh" p 58.

Avodas Avoda
11-24-2004, 03:44 PM
That's even better. Thank you

Gevurah
11-24-2004, 03:55 PM
So writes R' Berel Levin in his book "avodas hakodesh" p 58.

how do you get this?

Torah613
11-24-2004, 08:56 PM
Call him. Kehos.

RavSiach
11-25-2004, 09:52 AM
how do you get this?

I have a copy.

Gevurah
11-25-2004, 11:59 AM
So drop it off at my house ;)

Nu I called Kehos and the person who answered said after 5 minutes...we do not sell such a sefer.

title? or whom to ask for?

what else is in that sefer ?

Torah613
11-25-2004, 02:57 PM


"
It does not have a kehos stamp.

Shadran
11-25-2004, 05:54 PM
Bichovski was a Kopuster, a Talmid of R' Shlomo Zalman who was fighting the Rebbe Maharash & Rebbe Rashab. R' S.Z was the son of the Mahari"l the older brother of the Maharash who took most of the Chasidim for the first Rosh Hashanah 5727 after the Tzemach Tzedek's passing. However he passed away in Cheshvan of that year (7 moths after his father) so R' S.Z. who was older than his uncle the Maharash claimed seniority over the Maharash (because he knew the Miteler Rebbe, etc.)

He (the Kopuster) also used Ksavim of the Tzemach Tzedek that he stole from Lubavitch as his own. He also went to the printer (in Slavita?) who was in middle of preparing a Sefer of the Rebbe Maharash called Likkutei Torah al Gimmel Parshiyos and replaced the Maharash'es manuscript with the Tzemach Tzedek's and when published he claimed that the Rebbe Maharash was publishing the Tzemach Tzedek's Maamorim as his own (in modern language plagiarism). That's why he became Treif by Chabadniks of old (the Rashab also talks about him in the unpublished parts of Toras Sholom). They rejected his Sefer Magen Ovos (which some say is really the Tzemach Tzedek's).

However all the brothers and their children who served as Rebbe's (Kopust, Liadi, Avrutch, Babroisk, Retzitze and others are always listed by the Rayatz in Hakria V'Hakdusha and in Hayom Yom by our Rebbe as Admurim of Chabad.

Some even say that when we count our Rebbeim in the mode of the Sefiros, we find the Besht and Maggid as Atik and Arich, the Alter Rebbe as Chochma, Miteler Rebbe as Bina and the Tzemach Tzedek as Daas. Then we find the Rashab as Hod and the Rayatz as Yesod and the Rebbe as Malchus (see Sicha Breishis 5761) what happens to Chessed, Gevurah, Tiferes, and Netzach? The answer is that it splits with the children of the Tzemach Tzedek (there may be a reference from the Rebbe somewhere in 5761 (and in Reshimos?) about this but not clear and spelled out)

Bichovski was a wealthy man who went on to publish the Ksavim of the Tzemach Tzedek like Derech Mitzvosecho and the first Or Hatorah but many Chabadniks refused to use his Sfarim because of his identity.

The Rebbe took a different approach. The Rebbe always found the good of every person and he was grateful to anyone who published anything from Chassidus and the Rebbeim (actually any Torah content). And it seemed like the Rebbe was trying to do a favor for Reb Chaim Eliezer Bichovski and he sort of Koshered him by publishing not only the Ksavim that he published from our Rebbeim but even his own writings (though w/o the Kehos Shtempel) and sold it in Kehos. At the time of publication everyone was in shock, but they pointed to the publication of 3 volumes of Ohel Rochel that was paid for by the Rebbe even though we know the end of the author was not pleasant, V'Da"l.

In general the Rebbe speaks about publishing all Chassidus from anyone including the Strasheler and he even used the number of publishing 613 Sifrei Chassidus in the conversations at the Yom Tov table Succos 5731. (Thats where the famous M****helach's Chassidus quote comes from...)

The bottom line is that we must learn Chassidus B'Shufi and the Rebbeim will schlep us out from every blotte.

Torah613
11-25-2004, 07:28 PM
He (the Kopuster) also used Ksavim of the Tzemach Tzedek that he stole from Lubavitch as his own. He also went to the printer (in Slavita?) who was in middle of preparing a Sefer of the Rebbe Maharash called Likkutei Torah al Gimmel Parshiyos and replaced the Maharash'es manuscript with the Tzemach Tzedek's and when published he claimed that the Rebbe Maharash was publishing the Tzemach Tzedek's Maamorim as his own (in modern language plagiarism).IIRC, this story is told about his chassidim, not that "he" went etc (I know that shlucho shel odom kemoso, but still...).

Shadran
11-25-2004, 08:59 PM
IIRC, this story is told about his chassidim, not that "he" went etc (I know that shlucho shel odom kemoso, but still...).

I don't know what your source is since these stories were not published in any official Chabad publication. However, the Rebbe Rashab in the Hashmotos of Toras Sholom (which circulated in the 60's) attributes it directly to him in very strong terms. (If I'm not mistaken the Rebbe also writes of this parsha in the Reshimos). BTW, when you say his Chasidim it is usually referred to as R' E. Bichovski as he was the main player.

Torah613
11-25-2004, 10:01 PM
I know about the hashmotos - does he clearly attribute the stealing to the Kapustor himself there
? I am talking about the stealing of the ksovim, the story of which is brought by the Rebbe.
The reshimos is in # 118, and the ganof is described there as an avreich" - clearly not R' SZ.

Shadran
11-25-2004, 10:26 PM
OK, I see where you are coming from. But I believe that he is referred to as the Avreich. They always used code words in describing these stories in order to protect Kovod Beis Hamalchus (Tzarske Familye). The Rebbe Rashab speaks of him very strongly, and ascribes to him various things in terms that only the Rashab can use, which is why it wasn't published at the time.

RebYid
11-25-2004, 10:31 PM
How reliable are those "hashmotes"?

Shadran
11-25-2004, 10:49 PM
How reliable are those "hashmotes"?
Very. Not everything has to be spelled out. They are as reliable as any Ksav published, V'Da"l.

Torah613
11-25-2004, 10:53 PM
OK, I see where you are coming from. But I believe that he is referred to as the Avreich. They always used code words in describing these stories in order to protect Kovod Beis Hamalchus (Tzarske Familye). The Rebbe Rashab speaks of him very strongly, and ascribes to him various things in terms that only the Rashab can use, which is why it wasn't published at the time.Would the Rebbe have referred to him as such in the reshimos? Especially as the loshon is "that they sent an avreich"?
[In the copy of the hashmotos that I have (I just checked) he doesn't describe the stealing - though he does discuss his maamorim in sharp terms].

Shadran
11-25-2004, 11:47 PM
Would the Rebbe have referred to him as such in the reshimos? Especially as the loshon is "that they sent an avreich"?
[In the copy of the hashmotos that I have (I just checked) he doesn't describe the stealing - though he does discuss his maamorim in sharp terms].
There are some very sharp expressions in the Reshimos (even after the censorship of the publisher) which is not what we are used to hearing from the Rebbe (maybe thats why the Rebbe kept them private).

However, at the moment I am not able to lookup all my sources to quote you exactly. So maybe youre right. I don't have to be right (As Chasidim interpret the Mishne Al Titzdak Harbe).

I just remember some of these issues from when I was a Bochur (70's)collecting and reading all the Reshimos I can put my hands on, and I also had some Mashpiim and Eltere Chasidim in NY, MTL and Israel to talk to about these issues and this is what I remember.

Avodas Avoda
11-26-2004, 01:50 AM
...However all the brothers and their children who served as Rebbe's (Kopust, Liadi, Avrutch, Babroisk, Retzitze and others are always listed by the Rayatz in Hakria V'Hakdusha and in Hayom Yom by our Rebbe as Admurim of Chabad.

...In general the Rebbe speaks about publishing all Chassidus from anyone including the Strasheler and he even used the number of publishing 613 Sifrei Chassidus in the conversations at the Yom Tov table Succos 5731. (Thats where the famous M****helach's Chassidus quote comes from...)


Wow... thank you very much! Where can these seforim be found now?

wannabe
11-26-2004, 06:58 AM
1) The story about printing the theTzemach Tzedek's maamar in the likutei torah for 3 parshiyos was mentioned by the Rebbe during a nichum aveilim by the Rashag on 25 tishrei 5730 (printed in hamelech bemsibo volume 2 pg 79. There the Rebbe attributes it to Kapuste Chassidim). - The Rebbe there is quoting the Frierdige Rebbe.

2) The main argument between the Kapuster and the Rebbe Maharash was about the subject of osiyus dershimo lo noga bohem hatzimtzum (see hamelech bemsibo there in the nispochim barichus). I heard that when tomchei temimim was established, and one of the tmimim went home for the first bein hazmanim, a Kaposter chosid in his hometown started to speak to him about osiyus dershimo lo noga bohem hatzimtzum, and was shocked when the tomim didn't know what hewas talking about, because the Kaposter chassidim thought that the only reason that the Rebbe Rashab established TT was to gain adherents for the viewpoint that osiyus dershimo lo noga bohem hatzimtzum.

Torah613
11-26-2004, 08:40 AM
In the aforementioned reshima (#118) he brings several places where the Rebbe mentioned this, including the place you mention.

Bittul
11-26-2004, 09:59 AM
Interesting thread. Levin's book could at one point be purchased directly from him, although I heard he no longer sells it. Try him at the Lubavitch library.

I believe there is a vort somewhere from the Rebbe Rashab that every Sefer on Torah, even if marginal, should be published, as for every such sefer published another secular book is not published.

On the kapuster's instructions, yes, but why would he dirty his own hands with the actual switch of ksovim? IIRC, the printer was a kopuster, so it simply needed a shliach from the kopuster to tell him to switch the ksovim.

Shadran
11-26-2004, 12:01 PM
Wow... thank you very much! Where can these seforim be found now?
Hakria V'Hakdusha has been reprinted lately and may be found by some of the CH booksellers. Otherwise Hamelech Bimsibo (2 Vols.) [it is important to note that these Seforim are very inaccurate but are good as reference points] is the other one (although I'll admit that I remember it more from when it happened, I was present at the Shiva by the Rashag and I heard the discussion. And about the Strasheler was on Succos 5731 which I heard from a Bochur [R. Telzner] who was there and chazerred it right after the Seudah). Hayom Yom I refer to the beginning in the Hishtalshelus of Nesiei Chabad [unless revisions have been made in the new printings about this too].